Double Bass bridge adjusters or not?

sidonbass

sidonbass

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May 27, 2006
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Santa Fe, New Mexico
#1
First of all, I'm not a luthier, nor do I play one on TV, but... my logic, which could be all wrong, thinks that the metal wheel adjusters for bridge height do not transfer sound from the strings to the bridge to the top as well as a bridge without adjusters would transfer sound. would vs metal. Right? Wrong?
I ask because if a non adjustable bridge would transfer sound better to the top, then I want to replace my slightly warping bridge with one that doesn't have adjuster wheels.
Thanks for your expert opinions!
 
#3
I'm pretty sure there was an article in an issue of DOUBLE BASSIST, if I can dig it up and scan it, I will. Best recollection is that the answer is YES bridge material makes a difference in the sound but it's pretty much only detectable by machines that do acoustical analysis....
 
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#4
Playing an aluminum double bass, I have become somewhat of an expert at trying to reduce metallic tone. It is an endless endeavor. :D

I had a whole big thing to say about the bridge and adjuster question, but it has all been said, and very well... FWIW, the same question occurs with many other musical instruments besides double bass, with the same concerns and the same conclusions. It's really difficult to objectively assign a human-perceivable difference in sound while at the same time accounting for differences in wood and setup.

That said, there is a cost difference. Maybe that can provide your answer?
 
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#6
All I can say is this... if you experiment with different strings at all, to compensate for differences in feel/tension, you want adjusters. I have ebony adjusters on my bass and they've been there from the start, and being able to tweak things for feel has been a godsend. I get the desire to have the most sound transfer possible into the top, but it's so negligible that the positives far outweigh the negatives in terms of flexibility. The adjusters have never made me question their effect on my sound. That comes down to how much out of practice I am. YMMV though.
 
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#7
bassically_eli said:
Well, if one makes everything except the strings and adjusters out of wood (and tuners, end pin, and tail wire I guess), I think that could just do the trick....
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My observation: On my aluminum double bass, and on just about any wooden double bass, the biggest influence resulting in metallic tone is the strings. I've heard wooden double basses wearing Spiros that sound more metallic than my aluminum double bass wearing synthetic strings, and other double bass players in my circle have agreed.

Compared to strings, at least in my opinion, having a little bit of metal in the form of adjusters in the bridge really doesn't seem to make that much difference. But that's a personal call that each of us has to make for ourselves.
 
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#8
Don Hergert said:
My observation: On my aluminum double bass, and on just about any wooden double bass, the biggest influence resulting in metallic tone is the strings. I've heard wooden double basses wearing Spiros that sound more metallic than my aluminum double bass wearing synthetic strings, and other double bass players in my circle have agreed.

Compared to strings, at least in my opinion, having a little bit of metal in the form of adjusters in the bridge really doesn't seem to make that much difference. But that's a personal call that each of us has to make for ourselves.
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That makes sense to me. The main vibrating parts of a DB are the strings and the top. Add the bridge to that list, too, I suppose, but two tiny wheels of metal sandwiched between two pieces of wood don't seem to impact much.
 
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#9
Don Hergert said:
My observation: On my aluminum double bass, and on just about any wooden double bass, the biggest influence resulting in metallic tone is the strings. I've heard wooden double basses wearing Spiros that sound more metallic than my aluminum double bass wearing synthetic strings, and other double bass players in my circle have agreed.

Compared to strings, at least in my opinion, having a little bit of metal in the form of adjusters in the bridge really doesn't seem to make that much difference. But that's a personal call that each of us has to make for ourselves.
Click to expand...
I had one set of Spiros 22+ years ago on a student bass and I was done with them. Ripped up my hands and their tone isn't really something I enjoyed. I've used some form of synthetic core metal wrapped string for the bulk of my playing years, and my bass currently wears a Helicore Hybrid E, ZYEX A, and Aquila Gold Springs D and G. I could get on with a full set of Zyex, and I did for a while, but really found that the Aquila top 2 got me where I'd been trying to get to for years. No metallic nastiness for sure.
 
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#10
So for your amusement, FWIW, this is my Deuce1 bridge:

1732672795711.jpeg

It's a mostly aluminum structure, with 2 1/4" bolts leading through the adjusters to the bridge feet. There are 3 relatively small pieces of wood that contact the strings and the double bass. The whole bridge is actually lighter than many wooden double bass bridges...

I've heard these exact same Deuce1 bridges on wooden double basses, and without seeing them you wouldn't know by tone or volume that those wooden double basses had them. These bridges may be thought of as ugly, and they are certainly unconventional, but they do a good job of being a bridge, and by design they permanently resist tipping.

Maybe a little metal in a bridge isn't that bad of a thing. :D
 
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#12
Don Hergert said:
So for your amusement, FWIW, this is my Deuce1 bridge:

View attachment 7086653

It's a mostly aluminum structure, with 2 1/4" bolts leading through the adjusters to the bridge feet. There are 3 relatively small pieces of wood that contact the strings and the double bass. The whole bridge is actually lighter than many wooden double bass bridges...

I've heard these exact same Deuce1 bridges on wooden double basses, and without seeing them you wouldn't know by tone or volume that those wooden double basses had them. These bridges may be thought of as ugly, and they are certainly unconventional, but they do a good job of being a bridge, and by design they permanently resist tipping.

Maybe a little metal in a bridge isn't that bad of a thing. :D
Click to expand...
Is that typically how the feet sit, in a T-shape?
 
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#13
Yes. It's intentional, the method the Deuce people use to prevent tipping. It could theoretically be done nearly the same way with a wooden bridge with adjusters, having the bass foot perpendicular to the treble foot, but I don't know if a wooden bridge could handle the angular stress without splitting.
 
#14
Every bass I've had since 1973 has had aluminum adjusters. Whatever difference there may be in sound/response versus a solid bridge is so minor that it's imperceptible to my ears. Every luthier I know, from Traeger (who set up my first good bass) to some of the great ones working today agrees.
 
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#15
The difference isn’t imperceptible to my ears. I absolutely loathe how aluminum adjusters sound.

Your primary concern is how much your bass moves as the weather changes. I have a relatively young one that does quite a bit. The bridge on that one has lignum vitae adjusters, which are really cool and don’t sound bad. The ancient German is almost stone-stable and wears an old straight bridge.
 
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#16
As a builder, I like things minimalized. Two less adjusters is two less things to go wrong.

As a player, in the last four weeks the weather has gone from 80 degrees F to mid 20s, rain, sunshine, snow, almost no humidity to extreme humidity.....oh yeah, we also had bit more rain 8 weeks ago. I turned the adjusters more than a few times and was glad they were there.

'Hate the super heavy brass ones, %$#& the plastic ones that break, 'like the oversized wooden ones, occasionally make my own from titanium, but most often I install the aluminum because they are readily available, readily accepted, and affordable. None of them are fool proof and none perfect.

B43.JPG


IMG_3838.JPG
 
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#17
I’ve installed delrin, brass, aluminum, adjusters using aluminum shafts and wood wheels. There were also a few with aluminum shafts and delrin wheels. Although each may have an effect on tone I don’t think it’s as much as some believe. Brass has more low end than aluminum but it’s not a big deal. I use one piece machine aluminum in 1/4”-20 because they work well and don’t break. I have not used big wooden adjusters because they don’t, and do.
 
#19
As James posted, the cheap cast aluminum are junk. Delrin will certainly break if torqued and I don’t like them either. They are on a backup bass because i don’t have the time to make another bridge for it. My earlier point about wooden ones isn’t quite accurate. Due to the large diameter of the threads there isn’t much left of the feet (any thinking luthier worships threads down). The adjusters might not break but the bridge might.
 
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