Double Bass A New Clue to finding the Magic Sound

[rickwolff]

I've been wondering why I can't get a recorded sound that is (close to) as good as the commercial recordings.

It couldn't be MOI, could it???? Nah.

My bass? I'd better hope not - my wife will kill me if I start looking at basses for 10K+.

Strings? Maybe. but wait a minute.


By accident, I came across a fascinating video on how mixing 'tricks' in the studio can greatly improve the recorded sound of a double bass. DUH.

The video showed how various plug-ins (Parametric EQ, Compression etc.) can result in a much 'Cleaner' bass sound with more articulation being heard.

Obviously, much of this is fairly involved and technical, but I did pick up one trick that I have been able to apply to my live sound. The engineer said that you might start by removing, or minimizing those frequencies that sound 'MUDDY'. In his example, those were around 120 Hz.

Fortunately, I still have my Fishman Dual Parametric EQ so I plugged it into the effects loop and cut the frequencies around 120 Hz. Viola !!! Much cleaner sound.

He also talked about boosting some high-mids around 5K, but doing that through my amp invites premature (xk*mf --NO, Not that) Feedback. That would probably be good when mixing with the recording board, but not live.

By the way, here is an example of something very close to 'The Perfect Bass Sound:



So here is the link to the video. I hope you find it as enlightening as I did:

 

[Francois Blais]

Very interesting...
Do you know if this applies to EUBs too?

Thanks!

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Since the sound from an EUB pickup is quite different from a mic, only some general ideas might be used for them.

If you can get a acoustic sound like using a Tone Dexter with a wavemap from an acoustic instrument with the same type of pickup or something like the new Yamaha EUB it might work the same way.

But mixing in a boosted area wouldn‘t work on stage, feedback.

So these are studio tricks after making a recording, not for live sound (except maybe FOH sound).

 

[rickwolff]

Since the sound from an EUB pickup is quite different from a mic, only some general ideas might be used for them.

If you can get a acoustic sound like using a Tone Dexter with a wavemap from an acoustic instrument with the same type of pickup or something like the new Yamaha EUB it might work the same way.

But mixing in a boosted area wouldn‘t work on stage, feedback.

So these are studio tricks after making a recording, not for live sound (except maybe FOH sound).

My experience in the 'studio' tells me that is probably true. However, the part about cutting out the mud (around 120 hz) is something I'm going to try live on my gig this Sunday. In the studio, it really does 'clean up the sound'.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Nothing wrong with reducing around 130 Hz, but since the pickups detect more low end than typically radiated from an acoustic DB top, I would cut the low end too.

And then there is the piezo ‚quack‘ resonance and limited high end ‚air’ and ...

 

[Keyser Soze]

FDeck's high pass filter cleans up boominess. This is old news, right?

 

[jj.833]

By the way, here is an example of something very close to 'The Perfect Bass Sound

Mine would be this one:


and live version:


Mike Arnopol. This would be the album that convinced me to take the double bass from the attic and start playing it for real. How the sound eats somewhere into behind the brain ... and develops this dark sensation... Changed my life. Funny thing is that in retrospective, I find the sound not very special. Perhaps it's just youtube compression ... or it's just times they are a-changing.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

FDeck's high pass filter cleans up boominess. This is old news, right?

The HPFpre and other high pass filters reduce low frequency content below a certain frequency. The HPFpre was developed for piezo pickups which generate additional lower frequency components that are not present in the signal of microphones. BTW, that might be less the characteristic of the piezo but more the position and way of detection where the pickup is placed.

The attenuation around 130 Hz is positioned higher than the low pass filter cutoff frequency and leaves at least some lower frequency content (mostly) unchanged.
It is more giving the DB some frequency range where it can shine through and cut something out where it might conflict or is overrepresented.

 

[rickwolff]

Very interesting...
Do you know if this applies to EUBs too?

Thanks!

Francois,

I don't know if that is pretty much a general rule as to where the 'MUD'lives (like how piezo quack seems to live around 600 hz), but if you have a parametric EQ the best way is to set it to cut maybe 10db or so and then slowly turn the frequency dial till you hear the offending sound disappear. Sometimes it works better to ADD 10 db and swing the dial till you hear the offending frequency (which is now more pronounced) and then change from the add db to cut db.

Hope that helps.

 

[rickwolff]

Nothing wrong with reducing around 130 Hz, but since the pickups detect more low end than typically radiated from an acoustic DB top, I would cut the low end too.

And then there is the piezo ‚quack‘ resonance and limited high end ‚air’ and ...

First, I'm not generally using pickups - I'm using a mic (the Xlson Chuck Israels Mic) and sometimes a second mic 3-4 feet away from the bass for 'air'. I reduce 5db around 5-600 hz for 'quack' (I think that frequency can sound a little 'quacky' even coming from a mic rather than a piezo.

Then again, I may be completely full of hot air. But the proof is in the pudding and I am getting a recorded aound (and hopefully a live sound) that I find pleasing. This first example is WITHOUT adding my parametric EQ tweaks. I think it already sounds good. Of course, I did adjust the EQ on my amp by cutting the bass to 9 o:clock and the low mids as well. However, the mics on the recorder are just recording the bass directly. The second channel in the recorder is coming out of my Post EQ DI.



Here is a clip of JUST the Xlson with the Parametric EQ engaged - cutting about 5db at both 120hx and 5K hz. Notice that it still has that nice 'pillowy sound' but without the mud. Just a slight cut at 120 makes a real difference.



Here is a clip with both mics - with the EQ on the Xlson:




The Xlson Mic provides the 'Girth' or Gravitas. The second mic placed several feet in front of the bass provides the air. Put the two together and I am very happy with the sound.