a question about amp heads & cabs

ShawnSheepy

ShawnSheepy

Jul 11, 2020
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Dublin, Ireland
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#1
I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to amp heads & cabs as I've played pretty much only combo amps so far.. but I was wondering something
how much of an effect do different heads have on tone, when using the same cab?
and vice versa, how much of an effect do different cabs have with the same head?

was thinking this after trying out different cab sims on the Darkglass Vintage Ultra where I can load a variety of cab sims on, and thought
"what if I was using a different preamp pedal with this cab sim?"
 
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#2
Quite a lot.
Each amp designer will have their own idea of the best starting point for the tone that they think most of their market wants, so even without using tone controls there's often a "baked in" frequency response curve.
Add to that that each designer may pick different frequencies for their tone controls to operate at, or include more or less fine tuning (eg swept mids vs fixed) or graphic EQ's and you can get quite a difference.
That's before dealing with thinks like gain structure - some designers will try to keep the preamp clean, letting the player get any drive/distortion from pedals etc, other designers will make the amp capable of doing some of that itself.

It's definitely worth trying as many different preamps/heads as you can if you're thinking of going this route.
 
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#3
it can make huge difference - depending on the particular head. i had a GK 112 through 3 heads, and my basses sounded distinctly different with each head.

that being said, my husband (guitar player) has a tone that he can always get very close to; i can always find him in guitar center because he can make any amp and cab sound like him if he takes some time. part of it's the guitar settings, the rest is he's willing to tweak the amp settings till he gets there.
 
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#4
To echo what they've already stated, it's going to make a big difference. If you were to just use a power amp, it probably won't make much of a difference. But as long as it's got a preamp in the amp, which most amps do these days, it's going to have its own voice. I went from a GK 1001rbII to an all tube Electric power unit into the same cab, a GK Neo 410. It was quite a difference. I also plug a Peavey Musician into it from time to time as well. Again, each head clearly sounds different.

I would say if you want to experiment, get a powerful power amp and try different preamps to get different flavors. See what you like most. This could get expensive so ask around a lot. Watch a lot of YT demos. There are plenty out there nowadays. See if you want a "tube type" tone or a solid state type tone. Both are quite different yet both can and usually do sound great in their own rights.
 
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#6
ShawnSheepy said:
thank you all for your input :) really gave me a bit more insight on this, and yeah I probably won't be able to try stuff out too much myself just due to money, but I know I like Ashdown stuff a lot, and hearing that the head does affect the sound significantly would help guide my decision for (maybe) a 'wish list' amp and cab rig.
Click to expand...

Not an amp, just the preamp. You could run this straight to the front of house board (if you're playing live a lot). Then just use your combo for stage presence/volume. Just a thought...

Ashdown Pro-DI
 
#8
Kindness said:
I like to find the cabinet that meets my needs (volume, portability, aesthetics, base tone) and then find an amp that complements the cabinet.
Click to expand...

This. Probably 9 times out of 10 over the past 30+ years.

ShawnSheepy said:
but I know I like Ashdown stuff a lot,
Click to expand...

I can't speak of the market in Ireland but (used) Ashdowns in general are quite inexpensive in most places. With the Class D amps and Neo speakers becoming all the rage, older/heavier rigs are considered passe for the most part. If you can deal with the size/weight of older units, I'm fairly certain that there are deals to be had.

Good luck.
 
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#9
Do you want clean, clear and/or transparent or do you prefer a baked-in tone or distortion? Basically amps and cabs have a bunch of different characteristics that can be mixed together in different ratios. Sort of like cooking, the key is combining the ingredients in a way that produces the flavor you want.

Basically each amp and each cab has it's own personality. Additionally the tone and feel varies with the amp/cab combination. Some combinations sound great, while others may sound awful. It's possible you could find an amp you really like and a cab you really like, that don't sound good together. Or you might find a certain amp/cab combination produces an unexpected gestalt that is way better than expected.

In my experience, the cab often makes more of a difference than the amp. Some cabs have a really strong baked in tone. Take the Ampeg 810E for example. Millions of people love this cab, but it's not very transparent. While amps do have a range of different voicings, most of them are more transparent than an 810E.
 
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#10
In previous years, when separate bass heads could weigh as much, combos were a viable alternative.

In recent years, with the advent of cigar box-sized, Class D-powered heads with LOTS of watts, they are not the alternative they once were: WTH, in many cases, modern NEO cabinets weigh less than heads used to !

It's all down to the cabinet, and different cabinets with different voicings are now all available as since you're not married to a built-in speaker in a combo, you are now free to try whatever you like, as long as the ohm and power ratings will play nice with the head. Or the reverse of this situation powering a given cab with different amps.

And as always, IF a head develops a problem that needs repair, you still have a good cabinet(s) to use a replacement while yours is being fixed. Have the same problem with a combo, you lose everything while it's in the shop.
 
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#12
David Morison said:
Quite a lot.
Each amp designer will have their own idea of the best starting point for the tone that they think most of their market wants, so even without using tone controls there's often a "baked in" frequency response curve.
Add to that that each designer may pick different frequencies for their tone controls to operate at, or include more or less fine tuning (eg swept mids vs fixed) or graphic EQ's and you can get quite a difference.
That's before dealing with thinks like gain structure - some designers will try to keep the preamp clean, letting the player get any drive/distortion from pedals etc, other designers will make the amp capable of doing some of that itself.

It's definitely worth trying as many different preamps/heads as you can if you're thinking of going this route.
Click to expand...
I back what David Morison said here.
 
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#13
ShawnSheepy said:
yes! I'm buying myself an Ashdown combo for €90 off of a friend's friend, played the exact model in several rehearsal spaces and loved it, so I felt quite lucky to get that deal
Click to expand...

Now I remember that from another thread. An excellent starting point. Learn to get the best out of it, get used to it and take it from there. Don't forget to have a ton of fun in the process...:)
 
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#14
In my experience, they both can make a lot of difference. Finding the "right" pairing is part of the tone chasing fun, and manufacturers don't always achieve that with their own product line IMO.

I prefer a cab that is relatively flat and contributes little if anything to the tonal output so that the bass and head are doing the tone shaping.

That said, in the days of my misspent youth long ago I loved the sound of my Rickenbacker 4000 running through a blackface Bassman head into a Sunn 200s cab. They both were colored but the combination worked magically for my ears and what I was playing at the time.
 
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#15
In my opinion and experience the bass (including strings, electronics, and playing technique) and the speaker cabinet have far more “personality” or “coloration” than modern amplifiers do.

But the amp does still contribute a certain sound.

For me, excluding playing technique, the big three are: strings, pickups & electronics, and speaker cabinet(s).
 
#16
ShawnSheepy said:
I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to amp heads & cabs as I've played pretty much only combo amps so far.. but I was wondering something
how much of an effect do different heads have on tone, when using the same cab?
and vice versa, how much of an effect do different cabs have with the same head?

was thinking this after trying out different cab sims on the Darkglass Vintage Ultra where I can load a variety of cab sims on, and thought
"what if I was using a different preamp pedal with this cab sim?"
Click to expand...
Amps and cabs and basses too, influence each other.

People have scoffed at me when I tell them it took me 20 years to find my sound... Why 20 years?
I simply could not afford to buy new gear and was left to the secondhand marketplace, trying different amps with different cabs.

Things really changed when I found the amp (Labsystems 600) that I liked, some 15 years into the process, and cab elimination through trial and error was relatively short and stopped when the right ones for me came along (Markbass CL152, Aguilar DB115, GK NEO212ii, Labsystems 115). They're all different and I use them specifically for different jobs ie; indoor, outdoor, large/small gigs, 4/5string bass/EUB, loud/mellow gigs,.... you get the picture...
 
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