Any downsides to a shortscale P?

[project_c]

I'm thinking about a custom short scale P, wondering if there are any potential downsides to it. Anyone know of any possible issues? Any problems with balance / playability / tone / intonation? I use the upper register a lot for solos so that area is really important for the stuff I play.

It would be a 4 string with a maple board, modern Precision (41mm) nut width, passive, possibly Quarter Pounder PJ's (although they may be a bit too boomy for a shortie), tapewound strings, old school dead tone. Basically something that has an old school P feel with increased playability and a shorter reach. Possible to achieve, or bad idea?

 

[guy n. cognito]

Depending on how "short" you go, string selection can be a big issue.

 

[Gorn]

Well short scales are inherently inferior and those who play them are equally inferior. Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself.

But really, no. It should be fine especially considering you're paying for a custom job. Any of those potential issues you mention could be dealt with during the build process, right?

 

[lz4005]

Any problems with balance / playability / tone / intonation?

All potential problems, yes. If you have a good builder who is experienced in the issues unique to building a shortie, none should be a deal breaker.

The issue with short scales is the inherent compromise in strings. (assuming metal strings, not something like a Ubass) To get the same tension as a long scale they have to be thicker. But thicker strings are less flexible, so there's always going to be a difference in how it plays compared to a long scale.

You're basically stuck with either floppier strings of the same thickness or stiffer ones of the same tension. Some people adapt easily or don't notice, others have problems with it.

 

[fermata]

If the new PJ Mustang is anything to go by, a short-scale P can sound great. I much prefer short-scale to long-scale, and I think their 'limitations' are often exaggerated. Sure, they're different from a long-scale bass, but that's also in large part the point. I'll be curious to see what you come up with!

 

[12BitSlab]

A short scale "P" will flop around in a regular sized "P" hard shell case. Other than that, you should be OK.

 

[MobileHolmes]

The tone will likely be a bit different, and the feel definitely will be, due to lower tension. Neither of these things is inherently bad. But I would expect a slightly darker, less tight tone on a short scale (I have a short scale, but it isn't a P, and it is different in every way so I can't generalize too much).

 

[project_c]

Depending on how "short" you go, string selection can be a big issue.

All potential problems, yes. If you have a good builder who is experienced in the issues unique to building a shortie, none should be a deal breaker.

The issue with short scales is the inherent compromise in strings. (assuming metal strings, not something like a Ubass) To get the same tension as a long scale they have to be thicker. But thicker strings are less flexible, so there's always going to be a difference in how it plays compared to a long scale.

You're basically stuck with either floppier strings of the same thickness or stiffer ones of the same tension. Some people adapt easily or don't notice, others have problems with it.

It would be a 'standard' short scale (if there is such a thing), 30". The strings I intend to use are D'Addario tapewounds which are already floppy on a normal P, but not as floppy as TI's. They make a short scale set which i'm assuming will be similarly floppy but hopefully not much floppier than the standard long scale.

 

[blue4]

It would be a 'standard' short scale (if there is such a thing), 30". The strings I intend to use are D'Addario tapewounds which are already floppy on a normal P, but not as floppy as TI's. They make a short scale set which i'm assuming will be similarly floppy but hopefully not much floppier than the standard long scale.

I have those tapes on a viola bass, and LaBellas on another. Feel wise the LaBellas seem tighter. But I haven't noticed any intonation problems, or difficulty with tension or tone with either brand. And that's on a rosewood floating bridge. A regular P bass style bring is will be fine. I had some DA tapes on a SX jazz that were fine in those areas as well. That's as budget bass as you can get so I would expect great results from a custom build.

 

[honeyiscool]

I wouldn't really recommend any brand except for La Bella if you want to go short scale. They're one of the few companies that makes every gauge for every scale, whereas a lot of companies will do head scratchy things, like not have thicker strings be standard for short scale, so you end up with extra floppy strings. La Bella makes 115s available in short scale. I would go with that if I were you. They're tapes so 115 is more like 105, and 105 is about the right amount of stability on a short scale, IMO.

But yeah, once you find the right strings, there's no downside at all to short scale basses. Just make sure you get good fret access and also enough frets (19 on a Mustang Bass is 2 frets too short for me, personally). Hell, get 24 if you can. The Warwick short scale basses are great for the money, too, btw.

 

[project_c]

I have those tapes on a viola bass, and LaBellas on another. Feel wise the LaBellas seem tighter. But I haven't noticed any intonation problems, or difficulty with tension or tone with either brand. And that's on a rosewood floating bridge. A regular P bass style bring is will be fine. I had some DA tapes on a SX jazz that were fine in those areas as well. That's as budget bass as you can get so I would expect great results from a custom build.

I wouldn't really recommend any brand except for La Bella if you want to go short scale. They're one of the few companies that makes every gauge for every scale, whereas a lot of companies will do head scratchy things, like not have thicker strings be standard for short scale, so you end up with extra floppy strings. La Bella makes 115s available in short scale. I would go with that if I were you. They're tapes so 115 is more like 105, and 105 is about the right amount of stability on a short scale, IMO.

But yeah, once you find the right strings, there's no downside at all to short scale basses. Just make sure you get good fret access and also enough frets (19 on a Mustang Bass is 2 frets too short for me, personally). Hell, get 24 if you can. The Warwick short scale basses are great for the money, too, btw.

Thanks for the replies. I use DA tapes religiously on all my P's but i'll look into the Labellas, that's good to know, if they're tighter they may also solve a certain 'clack' issue on my fretless (but that's a subject for a different thread..).

In terms of fret access I know Maruszczyk has a 22 fret Elwood model which is a very nice looking shrunken jazz bass, so i'm also looking at that as a potential option, but then that's a J, not a P.. Maybe I could go for that body shape but with a PJ config instead of JJ.

 

[honeyiscool]

Thanks for the replies. I use DA tapes religiously on all my P's but i'll look into the Labellas, that's good to know, if they're tighter they may also solve a certain 'clack' issue on my fretless (but that's a subject for a different thread..).

In terms of fret access I know Maruszczyk has a 22 fret Elwood model which is a very nice looking shrunken jazz bass, so i'm also looking at that as a potential option, but then that's a J, not a P.. Maybe I could go for that body shape but with a PJ config instead of JJ.

La Bella also has white tapes which are very wonderful. That's what I personally use on my Sterling.

 

[fretlessguy]

It sounds like you will have a winner to me. I like the idea of tapes. Also, if you want a set of flats for an old school tone. GHS makes a couple of short scale sets, their Precision Flats and Bribe Flats, that would get that tone, although the P flats would sound more old school. The Brite Flats are thicker gauged and be less floppy.

 

[NoBlackTShirts]

My experience is that you get most of the benefit of short scale going to 32", without the almost-kind-of-too-smallness of a 30". Although I'm fine with 30". I was playing it today. But I'm a little finer with 32".

Except if you play 32" there are only the most basic string options. If you like the top five models of strings you're golden. Otherwise you're toast.
.

 

[micguy]

A medium scale instrument with a string through the body setup usually allows you to use regular long scale strings - the extra length is used up going through the body. I have one and it works well.

Another option is a reversed Fender style headstock - the E and D strings are the problematic ones on a short scale, and with a reversed headstock, the string narrows down before it hits the tuner, allowing you to use long scale strings on a short scale.

 

[NoiseNinja]

I almost exclusively play my Ibanez Mikro these days (28,6" scale length), and I never had a bass I was happier with.

I did swap the stock pickups with a pair of P/J EMG Geezer Butler though.

I never had any problems with strings either, even if this is a sub short scale bass regular short scale D'Addario strings fits just fine.

Yes, short scales are different, but I wouldn't call any of the differences from standard 34" scales disadvantages.

As already mentioned, similar gauged strings will be floppier than on a long scale, but I actually like that fact myself and even play with relatively slim gauged strings 040-095.

Also they will emphasis the low mids slightly more than 34", but that is not necessarily a bad thing either and I guess this could be issued with different pickups and/or strings.

I can honestly only see advantages in short scales, which mainly would be the increased playabillity, unless you have giant hands and fingers in which case it might feel too cramped.

Good luck with getting your short scale P, and be sure to post pictures when you have it

 

[mbell75]

I'm thinking about a custom short scale P, wondering if there are any potential downsides to it. Anyone know of any possible issues? Any problems with balance / playability / tone / intonation? I use the upper register a lot for solos so that area is really important for the stuff I play.

It would be a 4 string with a maple board, modern Precision (41mm) nut width, passive, possibly Quarter Pounder PJ's (although they may be a bit too boomy for a shortie), tapewound strings, old school dead tone. Basically something that has an old school P feel with increased playability and a shorter reach. Possible to achieve, or bad idea?

I just dropped a Quarter Pounder into my 30" scale SX Ursa 1. Not boomy at all, it sounds awesome and I paid $145 total, $70 for the bass and $75 for the pickup. You are not going to find many 41mm nut width on a short scale P unless you go boutique or custom. Cant think of a single one aside from the Harley Benton PB-Shorty at 42mm, most are all 38mm. Maybe someone knows of one I can't think of.

 

[project_c]

I just dropped a Quarter Pounder into my 30" scale SX Ursa 1. Not boomy at all, it sounds awesome and I paid $145 total, $70 for the bass and $75 for the pickup. You are not going to find many 41mm nut width on a short scale P unless you go boutique or custom. Cant think of a single one aside from the Harley Benton PB-Shorty at 42mm, most are all 38mm. Maybe someone knows of one I can't think of.

Sounds good, 40mm seems to be most common but that should be fine.

 

[project_c]

I almost exclusively play my Ibanez Mikro these days (28,6" scale length), and I never had a bass I was happier with.

I did swap the stock pickups with a pair of P/J EMG Geezer Butler though.

I never had any problems with strings either, even if this is a sub short scale bass regular short scale D'Addario strings fits just fine.

Yes, short scales are different, but I wouldn't call any of the differences from standard 34" scales disadvantages.

As already mentioned, similar gauged strings will be sloppier than on a long scale, but I actually like that fact myself and even play with relatively slim gauged strings 040-095.

Also they will emphasis the low mids slightly more than 34", but that is not necessarily a bad thing either and I guess this could be issued with different pickups and/or strings.

I can honestly only see advantages in short scales, which mainly would be the increased playabillity, unless you have giant hands and fingers in which case it might feel too cramped.

Good luck with getting your short scale P, and be sure to post pictures when you have it

Thanks for the reply. If there's a low-mid boost with short scales, would a short scale jazz be closer in tone to a normal precision in terms of punch? I heard a demo for a passive shortie jazz that sounded a bit more ballsy and focussed than a normal jazz. Not necessarily a precision tone as such, but it had a similar 'weight' to the notes as a P, it seemed to occupy a similar sonic space as a P, I was quite surprised by it.

It's also definitely the increased playability that i'm interested in. I'm 5 foot 6 and I've played normal basses for years, but I find myself staying away from the lower registers for fast sections / solos because that area is much more of a stretch, and regardless of the popular notion that it just takes more practice, I think if we want to get to a certain point in our playing ability, we have to take our physical limitations into consideration at some stage.

The only things that put me off shortscales up till now were that I was worried that I may give myself a handicap by losing the ability to play normal scale basses, and that by playing shortscales only you are very limited in terms of what basses are available. But then as someone who plays a p-bass 99.9% of the time this may not be a big issue..

 

[NoiseNinja]

Thanks for the reply. If there's a low-mid boost with short scales, would a short scale jazz be closer in tone to a normal precision in terms of punch? I heard a demo for a passive shortie jazz that sounded a bit more ballsy and focussed than a normal jazz. Not necessarily a precision tone as such, but it had a similar 'weight' to the notes as a P, it seemed to occupy a similar sonic space as a P, I was quite surprised by it.

It's also definitely the increased playability that i'm interested in. I'm 5 foot 6 and I've played normal basses for years, but I find myself staying away from the lower registers for fast sections / solos because that area is much more of a stretch, and regardless of the popular notion that it just takes more practice, I think if we want to get to a certain point in our playing ability, we have to take our physical limitations into consideration at some stage.

The only things that put me off shortscales up till now were that I was worried that I may give myself a handicap by losing the ability to play normal scale basses, and that by playing shortscales only you are very limited in terms of what basses are available. But then as someone who plays a p-bass 99.9% of the time this may not be a big issue..

I can't really answer if a short scale jazz bass would be a better option for you, as I never owned a pure P or J bass, short or regular scale.

But I doubt the low mids boost is significant enough for it to sound like a P.

That I personally probably would chose a P/J is a whole other story, love the sound of my Ibanez Mikro P/J with EMG Geezer Butler pickups.

I doubt it would give you any handicap mainly using a short scale towards using a regular scaled bass though, I at least easily adapt to my full scale Aria Pro II 34" scale from my 28,6" Mikro.

Just do it.

Also you are aware of the fact that Fender made a sub short scale P bass 28,6" for a short period, called P Bass Junior, right?

They are pretty rare though.