Double Bass Anybody Else Memorize Difficult Passages, to Conquer ‘Em?

[CaseyVancouver]

I recall one of my conductors, a fine pro cellist, saying if he has an impossible passage to play, he just memorizes it during his own practice sessions. Works like magic.

Memorization really does work.
It’s almost a super power.

I’ve been struggling with this Beethoven 4 Movement 2 passage, bars 24-26.
Finally once committed to memory, I can now play the thing at speed.
I have been worried my current conductor was going to ask me to play the beast solo during rehearsals,
as she likes to do now and then.
Whew!

Anybody else find memorization works for them?
Any other tricks you’ve learned along the way dealing with the impossible?

 

[Wasnex]

I think in a practical sense, it's impossible to read beyond a certain tempo and sub division. So the reality is you must memorize super fast passages. Whether that means you can play it without glancing at the page may be another matter. As you may know, I tend to struggle with getting entirely off the page. I think mostly the page helps me to keep my place, I.E. reminds me where I am and what comes next.

That's not to say I can't memorize something well enough to play it without the music in front of...only that it's rarely something I do or even find necessary.

 

[Inky13]

Holy Bajeebas!

 

[the_Ryan]

I don't really make a conscious effort to memorize passages, it's more that by having worked on the passage so much it ends up memorized.

It's been a while since I've heard/played Beethoven 4, but if I remember correctly this passage isn't quite as dastardly as it looks because this movement is in a super slow 6.

 

[Carl Hillman]

I recall one of my conductors, a fine pro cellist, saying if he has an impossible passage to play, he just memorizes it during his own practice sessions. Works like magic.

Memorization really does work.
It’s almost a super power.

I’ve been struggling with this Beethoven 4 Movement 2 passage, bars 24-26.
Finally once committed to memory, I can now play the thing at speed.
I have been worried my current conductor was going to ask me to play the beast solo during rehearsals,
as she likes to do now and then.
Whew!

Anybody else find memorization works for them?
Any other tricks you’ve learned along the way dealing with the impossible?

View attachment 5388735

There have been a few hard things I've had to memorize to play, and I don't really have any tricks.

I just try to nail down the best fingering for a passage early on so I'm playing it the same way every time I run through it. Especially on fast stuff, if I'm playing along and deviate even slightly from my selected fingering, I'll usually crash and burn.

 

[Anne Millington]

I was having eye problems for a while, and had to almost memorize almost everything I wanted to play. It worked, but now that my eyes are good, well it's just better. Tough when you see the staff as having 6, sometimes 7 lines. Puts you right off.

But even now, for those hard finger twisters, memorization is a really good strategy.

 

[Mark_T]

I haven't ever tried using memorization as a learning technique but I do often end up memorizing tricky passages simply by virtue of working on them so much. Also, it's quicker to recall things than read them.

Beethoven 4 is on my bucket list. I first heard it a few years ago on the radio and guessed what it had to be (chalk one up for a music history class and a lot of luck). I always say about it, if just about any composer other than Beethoven had written it, it'd be considered their masterpiece, but it has the unfortunate luck to sit between Beethoven's 3rd and 5th symphonies and almost anything sandwiched there would struggle for proper recognition.

My other weird trick for learning impossible passages is to practice fast slowly. For example, I got the Dies Irae in Mozart's Requiem down last year by playing beats 1 and 3 and full speed and beats 2 and 4 at half tempo, then swapping. That gave me time to learn the notes at tempo, but also to mentally recover. And it made sure I practiced every single note at concert tempo without having to run the whole thing at concert tempo all the time.

 

[Wasnex]

I do often end up memorizing tricky passages simply by virtue of working on them so much.

Yep; I call it playing a part in.

 

[Paps]

Reminds me of a conductor's response to such a passage.
The Bassist queried: "Is that passage for effect or do we have to play all the notes?"
Conductor: "It's for effect...And the way you get the effect is to play all the notes!"

As I'm not in a pro Orchestra, I would aspire to play the notes, but depending on the time I had to prepare,
I might just play every other note. I have started memorizing difficult sections and find it does help.
IMHO the trick to memorization is that the more you memorize the easier it becomes.

 

[elberon]

This is a tricky passage but not blazing fast just because it involves a lot of 32nd notes. The tempo is "adagio" and a 1958 recording by Bernstein and the NYP takes it at quarter-note = 30. The 4th mvt. on the other hand is crazy fast. There are underlying patterns in this one that if memorized can help untangling it (descending 3rd, step up, or descending 3rd, 4th up in m. 24). There are also descending and ascending stepwise movements if you look at every other note that could help tie it together.

 

[Paps]

32nd notes! In Europe we would say demi-semi quavers. Interesting divergence.
Hemi-demi-semi quavers are 64th notes. Dont know which I prefer.. American system seems more concise. European more prescriptive.

 

[Notaluthier]

Having passages memorized allows you to see the conductor and other players much better

 

[Ed S]

I'm just a neophyte, but I definitely find I have to memorize certain passages. Especially passages with a lot of fast notes, a lot of shifts, or above 4th position. Of the 10 pieces our quartet is currently working on, at least half of them have brief passages that I'm having to work on more than the remaining 95% of the pieces - and STILL am not close to getting at speed.

But my question is, what does memorization mean to you? Are you memorizing how the notes look on the page? How the passage sounds? How your hands move during the passage? (Most likely, some combination of the 3.)

I think it is somewhat of a shortcoming of mine that I memorize more in terms of my hand movement on the fingerboard, than the music as written. And I tend to think of my right hand too "intellectually" - thinking about slurs or dynamics intrudes woodenly on the music.

 

[Mark_T]

32nd notes! In Europe we would say demi-semi quavers. Interesting divergence.

In all of Europe, or in GB? Is a quaver always a quarter note or is it what's getting the beat?

 

[Paps]

Well, there's the translation issue, but the names would be equivalent to crotchet, quaver etc.
A crotchet is always the black note with a stalk, a quaver is always the note a stalk and one tail, or one connecting line if a group are played; no matter what the beat. Then a minim is a clear circle with a stalk and a semibreve is a circle with no stalk. in 2/2 time there are 2 crotchets to a beat or a minim is one beat.
I haven't used these terms in years, after a while it doesn't matter what you call em, you just play em!

 

[Quentin MCB]

A crotchet is always the black note with a stalk, a quaver is always the note a stalk and one tail, or one connecting line if a group are played; no matter what the beat. Then a minim is a clear circle with a stalk and a semibreve is a circle with no stalk. in 2/2 time there are 2 crotchets to a beat or a minim is one beat.

In french, all note durations have a dedicated name from whole note to 8th, after that we use multiples of 8th note. 8th note is "croche", then 16th "double croche", 32th "triple croche" and 64th "quadruple croche".

 

[Blues Daddy]

I'm fortunate that my high school band director required us to memorize each entire marching program and parade performances. I learned at an early point in my development how to memorize and to become familiar with the processes.

@CaseyVancouver , big ups to you for getting this passage worked out well.

For me, memorizing music happens when I play a part (or a whole piece) over and over and over again. DUH!

But seriously, it's the only way to get it into my head and into my muscle memory at the same time. Sometimes, I'll memorize something by specifically focusing on a part . . . like the OP is discussing here, and other times I'll 'accidentally' memorize something without trying to just because I ran through it a bunch of times (all good).

When it's helpful I like to split a passage up - if necessary - into manageable sections and then continue to add the sections back together as I learn them. I will definitely slow the practice tempo down if I need to ensure that I get all the notes in or the timings worked out. Also, be sure to incorporate all elements of the music throughout the memorizing process, such as crescendos, staccato, etc. so they don't become an afterthought later on.

I know that one of the surest ways to boost my own confidence for performances is to memorize when it matters.

 

[Derek Kay]

Wot, you want it with the dynamics as well!

 

[Lee Moses]

But my question is, what does memorization mean to you? Are you memorizing how the notes look on the page? How the passage sounds? How your hands move during the passage? (Most likely, some combination of the 3.)

For me personally, yes, I would say it is some combination of the 3. But for memorization strategy, you want to think, "What is this passage doing?" Is it playing inverted arpeggios? Is it a sequence? Etc. Once you understand the logic behind it, it is much easier to remember than if you approach it as some random combination of notes.

 

[Paps]

In french, all note durations have a dedicated name from whole note to 8th, after that we use multiples of 8th note. 8th note is "croche", then 16th "double croche", 32th "triple croche" and 64th "quadruple croche".

Yes, very similar, confusingly so. 1/4 note is a crotchet and 1/8th note is quaver, then it's semi-quaver etc.