I'm buying a 1967 (?) B-15. afaik, it has the original mud speaker ... and there was the D-140 option as well as Altec 421 ... Any advice on the best choice?
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A 67 would be a single baffle cab, stock speaker would be a CTS with the D140 as the factory upgrade I believe. The altec was available an upgrade for the later (69-70s) thiele cabs.
In my single baffle I only had the stock CTS, though in my double baffle I had a K140, Altec 421, Eminence beta 15, eminence delta 15, and a reconed CTS. The CTS was the best of those for a smooth/warm vintage sound and really was a perfect match for that amp. I'd love to hear one with a D140. I'm not sure I'd describe the stock speaker as muddy, but I guess it depends on what kind of sound you're going for.
In my single baffle I only had the stock CTS, though in my double baffle I had a K140, Altec 421, Eminence beta 15, eminence delta 15, and a reconed CTS. The CTS was the best of those for a smooth/warm vintage sound and really was a perfect match for that amp. I'd love to hear one with a D140. I'm not sure I'd describe the stock speaker as muddy, but I guess it depends on what kind of sound you're going for.
Blue,
If you decide to go with a vintage accurate "factory upgrade" then the JBL-D130 was used in the B-15N(C). Unlike many, I do not like the CTS square magnet stock speaker.
It's to tubby, and doesn't have the midrange sound that I like. I used an Altec 421 8H (series II) and thought it sounded quite good. Others may disagree and that's their right.
After many years of searching, I now have a JBL D-130 and it sounds great. One caveat here, I do not push the volume of amp much past 5/6 with the bass and treble set
slightly above or below 12. I also used a Gauss 5840 and loved it. Ultimately, you have to try to hear the different speakers, in the cabinet. Just my take of course. You''
have quite an adventure trying to locate an 8 ohm JBL-D130 as a majority of them have been re-coned with the D-140 kit's. If I remember correctly, the factory upgrade for you're amp which is a B-15N(F) could be either a JBL or Altec.
If you decide to go with a vintage accurate "factory upgrade" then the JBL-D130 was used in the B-15N(C). Unlike many, I do not like the CTS square magnet stock speaker.
It's to tubby, and doesn't have the midrange sound that I like. I used an Altec 421 8H (series II) and thought it sounded quite good. Others may disagree and that's their right.
After many years of searching, I now have a JBL D-130 and it sounds great. One caveat here, I do not push the volume of amp much past 5/6 with the bass and treble set
slightly above or below 12. I also used a Gauss 5840 and loved it. Ultimately, you have to try to hear the different speakers, in the cabinet. Just my take of course. You''
have quite an adventure trying to locate an 8 ohm JBL-D130 as a majority of them have been re-coned with the D-140 kit's. If I remember correctly, the factory upgrade for you're amp which is a B-15N(F) could be either a JBL or Altec.
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I agree 100%. Now the B-15's that came in 68-74 with the CTS were considerably darker, but the CTS's from the single baffle era was pretty sweet.
I'll respectfully disagree with you guys, I mostly played a 66 Fender Jazz Bass when I was using the B-15N(C) of mine for gigs, and I was always running the tone controls on the bass and the amp
wide open. The CTS just didn't cut through the Hammond B-3's, and Wurlizer, or Baldwin Electronic pianos I played with. Perhap it's just me. I'm glad it worked for you. As I own a B-15N(C) I guess
my CTS would have been one of the early ones.
wide open. The CTS just didn't cut through the Hammond B-3's, and Wurlizer, or Baldwin Electronic pianos I played with. Perhap it's just me. I'm glad it worked for you. As I own a B-15N(C) I guess
my CTS would have been one of the early ones.
Hmmm...well they did start using CTS's with the C. But mine is from 66, Ampeg badged, and to me it sounds just like the Deltas in my repro cabs, which are all pretty good and fairly bright for 15"s. Does 4k no problem. Now the CTS I got with the 77 B-15N that I no longer have was from 71 and considerably darker, probably more like 3k. It wasn't Ampeg badged but it looked like the ones they used back then that I've seen.
I have a 1978 B-15S, and have a D-140 in it, sounds really good, brighter than the original Eminence.
Very interesting Jimmy, mines from July of 1964, but it wasn't baged, so just maybe, that's what the problem was. Thanks for shedding a little light, I let my CTS go, when I gave Greg Hopkins
the B-15N(D) that had a blown output transformer. It's possible that they ran out of their spec speakers from CTS (if there was such a thing in 64) and had to fill orders with their OEM the shelf 15's.
Well I guess now we'll never know, unless Gregg still has it, which he may but probably doesn't
The ‘63 NA/NB with the Jensen EM1500 was replaced by the NC revision in January of ‘64 which introduced the CTS speaker.
Interesting to note that NAMM took place in July 1963 and June/July 1964. The new revision did not coincide with either.
That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.
Interesting to note that NAMM took place in July 1963 and June/July 1964. The new revision did not coincide with either.
That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.
Can someone provide precise specs on the CTS B15N speakers?
Btw, how does an EV15L sound in the B15N versions?
Btw, how does an EV15L sound in the B15N versions?
Read the Delta 15a specs and imagine you've cut the power handling down to like 50w
In all fairness, I don’t know of any amp with a single ported 15 cab in the B-15 wattage range that’s going to hold up at all against a B3 - or too well against an electric piano if the player has a heavy left hand - no matter what speaker is in it.
Not everyone ran them wide open! But it is hard to cut through anyone with a heavy left hand at any volume.
I’m thinking more in terms of straight harmonic density. With a B3 there’s a lot of musical information. Especially when a player knows how to really use those drawbars. That’s a whole separate art form in itself.
Throw a thinner sounding bass like a JB up against it and you’ll need some decent wattage to hold up. I played a JB for three years with my cousin’s band starting back in ‘69. He had a decent Hammond player who knew how not to step on toes and fit in the band’s mix. But when he was really on a roll, and the Leslie was doing it’s whirly thing (Magic Carpet Ride anyone?) the JB completely disappeared until I started running it through a Kustom K200B with a 3x12 cab.
Funny how a 200W head was considered high powered for a bass amp back then. If only they could have imagined back then where we’d be today.
(Shames me to admit I kinda miss that old tuck n’ roll look even if I never enjoyed just how easy it was to blow a speaker in that particular cab.)
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To fill in some blanks....
What’s amazing about the Leslie model 145, 147, or 122 speaker that people typically used with Hammond organs is that the power amp had 2x6550’s producing only 40W. The preamp is in the organ. The cabinets had a single 15” speaker and a horn crossed over at 800Hz, they varied in height, the taller ones had a larger chamber over the 15” speaker and were supposed to produce more bass. The horn and woofer were fixed in place but they had motor driven rotating projectors. The motors have fast and slow settings. Volume is controlled with a foot pedal. What a sound!
Of course, the Hammonds have a wide sonic footprint that steps over not just the bass but everyone else. Nine drawbars per keyboard are used to set the volume of each tone in eight steps from low frequencies on the left to high on the right. The first four drawbars are mostly the bass frequencies. They help the organ player to dial in the sonic space that they occupy.
A marvelous instrument.
What’s amazing about the Leslie model 145, 147, or 122 speaker that people typically used with Hammond organs is that the power amp had 2x6550’s producing only 40W. The preamp is in the organ. The cabinets had a single 15” speaker and a horn crossed over at 800Hz, they varied in height, the taller ones had a larger chamber over the 15” speaker and were supposed to produce more bass. The horn and woofer were fixed in place but they had motor driven rotating projectors. The motors have fast and slow settings. Volume is controlled with a foot pedal. What a sound!
Of course, the Hammonds have a wide sonic footprint that steps over not just the bass but everyone else. Nine drawbars per keyboard are used to set the volume of each tone in eight steps from low frequencies on the left to high on the right. The first four drawbars are mostly the bass frequencies. They help the organ player to dial in the sonic space that they occupy.
A marvelous instrument.
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I'll post more after Tuesday after I pick it up. fwiw, here're
the photos I have: