Barefaced Super Twin vs Glockenklang Double

[Dragonlord]

I had the chance to try a BF ST next to my Glockenklang Double. I'm posting my impressions because many people might be looking at these cabs and not have a way to try them, so it might be useful for some. I'll state from the beginning that I don't have the levels of experience with gear that other TB members have, this is just my honest opinion of what I (and two more musicians) heard in the comparison.

So I'm trying to get something lighter than my Glockenklang Double (with which I am very happy tonally), and naturally Barefaced drew my interest. When I learned that an old friend had one a couple of hours away, I took the chance, loaded my cab on the car and went for some A/Bing. Both cabs are 212, but the ST doesn't have a tweeter, so we turned the tweeter off on the Glockenklang to make things more equal. The comparison took place at a rehearsal place, so we had the chance to play pretty loud, at rehearsal levels. I was very excited with all the reviews and specs of Barefaced, almost certain that a SC or BB2 would be my next cab and, well, I have to say I was a bit disappointed. Compared to the Glock, with the same amp settings the BF had significantly less low end and had very prominent mids (which I guess works nicely in a band mix - as did the Schroeders I once had). It also lacked the "moving air" effect in the lows that the Glock has. You could dial in more bass, of course, I'm just trying to compare the sound with the amp flat. The other thing we noticed was that the very present mids of the BF were a little raw/barking/harsher compared to the very smooth and refined but still very punchy mids of the Glock. One guy found the BF's sound more muffled - personally I wouldn't say muffled, but we all agreed that the Glock sounded more hi-fi.

However, we also all agreed that we could live and be happy with any of these cabs - they are both great cabs. And the weight of the BF is ridiculous! But tonally the BF did feel like a bit of a (small, but noticable) downgrade. This comparison renewed my respect for Glockenklang (which is also significantly cheaper), and I realized that replacing this cab with something lighter but of equal tone will not be an easy task. Maybe it's a matter of neo vs ceramic (I don't think it's a coincidence that Glockenklang only uses ceramic drivers, as they haven't found a neo driver that satisfies them as much). Anyway, not bashing BF at all, Alex seems to be a very knowledgeable guy and answered all of my questions, the light weight and middy sound would make these cabs ideal for gigging musicians who want to cut through in the mix and also save their backs, but to be honest we found the sound of the Glockenklang a little better in every aspect.

 

[monsterthompson]

How new or broken in is the Barefaced? When I first got my Super Compact, I had a similar impression with the mid range. I met up with another TB member, and we compared our cabinets. He had some AudioKinesis boxes, both Hathor and TC. I wondered if I should've gone with one of those. Over time, the cabinet seemed to smooth out (also some eq changes helped when the cab was newer). I've also added a tweeter by moving to the Big Baby 2, which also has more low end extension. The cab feels very balanced. I even had a Super Midget, and the addition of the tweeter seemed to help even out the frequency response balance. I'll also say, the SC in a loud jam setting seemed to fit, even when I thought the mids were a little strange in a solo setting.

Never played the Glock cab. Data points are always nice with cabs that are hard to find in stores. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Dragonlord]

How new or broken in is the Barefaced? When I first got my Super Compact, I had a similar impression with the mid range. I met up with another TB member, and we compared our cabinets. He had some AudioKinesis boxes, both Hathor and TC. I wondered if I should've gone with one of those. Over time, the cabinet seemed to smooth out (also some eq changes helped when the cab was newer). I've also added a tweeter by moving to the Big Baby 2, which also has more low end extension. The cab feels very balanced. I even had a Super Midget, and the addition of the tweeter seemed to help even out the frequency response balance. I'll also say, the SC in a loud jam setting seemed to fit, even when I thought the mids were a little strange in a solo setting.

Never played the Glock cab. Data points are always nice with cabs that are hard to find in stores. Thanks for sharing.

It also crossed my mind, but both cabs have been well broken in and have seen their share of rehearsals/gigs.

 

[monsterthompson]

It also crossed my mind, but both cabs have been well broken in and have seen their share of rehearsals/gigs.

Good to know.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Did you try to EQ your amp for the BF to get the sound you wanted?

 

[monsterthompson]

Did you try to EQ your amp for the BF to get the sound you wanted?

Reasonable question. I assumed that had been done.

In my case, I found the Monique I had at the time lacked the eq points and power to dial in the sound I wanted. I switched to a Genz Shuttle with a semi para mid eq, and I got things dialed in the way I wanted. After the cab broke in, I found it easier to get what I wanted with other amps I subsequently owned (sadly, I sold the Mo).

 

[Dragonlord]

Did you try to EQ your amp for the BF to get the sound you wanted?

As I said in the OP:

You could dial in more bass, of course, I'm just trying to compare the sound with the amp flat.

In general I prefer to have a good sound with eq flat so that I can further shape it whenever needed. Also, even if more bass could be dialed in, we couldn't do much to achieve the overall refinement of the Glock.

@monsterthompson I'd be very interested in your thoughts about the Audiokinesis cabs in general and compared to the SC. Except for the BB2, which is still in my radar although I'm a little reluctant by now, I'm also looking at Audiokinesis, Fearless and Bergantino HDN.

 

[sears]

This thread interests me because I am considering the Super Twin. I play a P with flats and you were playing a 5-string Dingwall, right?

 

[Dragonlord]

This thread interests me because I am considering the Super Twin. I play a P with flats and you were playing a 5-string Dingwall, right?

Yep, with stainless steel strings.

 

[monsterthompson]

Interesting. My initial SC experience was back when I had a Dingwall ABZ5. I liked things about that bass but not everything.

My AudioKinesis experience is that Duke makes awesome cabs. I found the Hathor 1203 to be similar to the Super Midget in a few ways. It's a little more voiced but not crazy. I think the output was pretty similar between the two. The Super Compact outperformed each of them as a single cab solution, for me. It's low end extension made it present louder and lower. The TC cabs are probably more similar to the Big Baby 2 but with a more refined, polite vibe about them. I'd say that the BB2 is a more balanced cab with the compression driver, but if you're not sure about the mids, the TC might be more your thing.

 

[jsbarber]

This comparison renewed my respect for Glockenklang (which is also significantly cheaper), and I realized that replacing this cab with something lighter but of equal tone will not be an easy task.

Are you aware of the Glockenklang Double Light and Double Art Light cabinets?
Glockenklang Bass Amps | GuitarX

The spec for the Double says 64 lbs. The Double Light uses the same drivers with a light weight cabinet construction and weighs 51.5 Lbs, while the Double Art Light uses their wonderful 2" soft done tweeter and weighs 54 lbs.

I own a pair of Glockenklang Bass Art Classic MKII cabinets that utilize the same cabinet construction and the 2" soft dome tweeter. They are very flat response - absolutely terrific.

I too am interested in BF, they obviously have a very strong following.

Jim

 

[Dragonlord]

Are you aware of the Glockenklang Double Light and Double Art Light cabinets.
Glockenklang Bass Amps | GuitarX

The spec for the Double says 64 lbs. The Double Light uses the same drivers with a light weight cabinet construction and weighs 51.5 Lbs, while the Double Art Light uses their wonderful 2" soft done tweeter and weighs 54 lbs.

I own a pair of Glockenklang Bass Art Classic MKII cabinets that utilize the same cabinet construction and the 2" soft dome tweeter. They are very flat response - absolutely terrific.

I too am interested in BF, they obviously have a very strong following.

Jim

Yes, back when I got my Double (around 10 years ago) the Light version already existed, but it is quite a bit more expensive and I didn't have back problems back then. Now, although it would be a nice weight reduction, I am trying to go even lighter, 40 lbs tops. That's why I'm looking at 2x112s instead of a 212...

@monsterthompson what you say about the TC is very interesting, if it is more like the BB2 (that is more lows than the SC/ST) but with a more refined sound, it might be very close to what I'm looking for.

 

[Plutonium244]

I have not played through a Glock so I can claim no knowledge about them or their sound.

One thing I'd say in general is that comparing two cabs at an arbitrary EQ/amp setting is not the best way to assess them, IMO. Dial them in individually, to see if you can get the sound you want. If, after doing that, you can't get your sound, then you'll know that particular cab is not for you. Although you mention you want to be able to further dial in adjustments from a baseline, doing a little amp EQ beforehand to "set it for the cab" should still allow plenty of additional adjustment.

I notice often that, if I use one bass for a set, then plug a different bass in without changing any amp settings, it might not sound that good with settings that sounded good on the first bass- even my favorite bass! But, if I set the EQ for that bass, it sounds like my favorite again. I think something very similar is true of cabs.

Also, if you are looking for a more hi-fi sound, you might do better with one of Barefaced's tweeted cabs, such as a Big Twin (to keep the same 2x12 motif), or a Big Baby II (which IMO has very good low extension-- some people complain that BF cabs have too much native low end, which I also do not agree with). The Super Twin does not have a tweet. Barefaced's tweeters are pretty smooth with no harshness to my ear, which I like.

The Glock Double does have, IIRC, a tweeter so comparing a non-tweeter cab and a tweeted cab is a bit apples to oranges, but you're aware of that already I'm sure.

I'll own up to the fact that I am a fan of the Barefaced cabs, and what you describe-- too much mid, lacking bass-- doesn't match my experience-- although they do tend to be more mid-forward until broken in, (but you've accounted for that, in stating that it is broken in). And I have already acknowledged that I haven't played through the Glock, so I am in no position to offer any direct comparison, so again, another grain of salt to take my POV with.

But, no one thing, of anything, is great for everybody. You want your sound; Barefaced may just not be it for you. It may well just be that the Glock is the right sounding cab for you, which is all that matters.

But, I would definitely recommend working with the amp EQ to see if that results in a good sound that is to your liking. I know I tend to cut mids when using the 12" drivers from Barefaced; I do not leave it flat. If I left everything at noon I am not sure I'd like it that much, either. But, when working the EQ to suit the cab, I love 'em.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on these 2 cabs. I love to learn about gear that I have no experience with such as the Glockenlang Double, so your remarks and impressions are definitely appreciated.

 

[Dragonlord]

Also, if you are looking for a more hi-fi sound, you might do better with one of Barefaced's tweeted cabs, such as a Big Twin (to keep the same 2x12 motif), or a Big Baby II (which IMO has very good low extension-- some people complain that BF cabs have too much native low end, which I also do not agree with). The Super Twin does not have a tweet. Barefaced's tweeters are pretty smooth with no harshness to my ear, which I like.

The Glock Double does have, IIRC, a tweeter so comparing a non-tweeter cab and a tweeted cab is a bit apples to oranges, but you're aware of that already I'm sure.

Indeed, that's why I said I compared them with the Glock's tweeter off

 

[Plutonium244]

Indeed, that's why I said I compared them with the Glock's tweeter off

Missed that, sorry.

 

[Groove Doctor]

That Glock Double 2x12" has a very smooth and refined sound. Not many cabs sound like it. Pity it's so darn heavy!!

 

[Sparkl]

Is there an useful guide explaining the general characteristic differences between alnico, ceramic and neo speakers I could read?

This matter is yet something that I have to research for myself to be more aware of it.

Anyways, I just got my Big Twin 2 delivered and it sounds awesome right out of the box. Still has to break I think so things will only get better from here.

Anyways, yes, you should try the tweeted BF cabs. I really never heard a tweeter like this one. No experience on glocks though.

 

[bklee]

Is there an useful guide explaining the general characteristic differences between alnico, ceramic and neo speakers I could read?

This matter is yet something that I have to research for myself to be more aware of it.

Anyways, I just got my Big Twin 2 delivered and it sounds awesome right out of the box. Still has to break I think so things will only get better from here.

Anyways, yes, you should try the tweeted BF cabs. I really never heard a tweeter like this one. No experience on glocks though.

I have two Barefaced cabs, a Super Twin (2x12 with tweeter) and a 6x10. I didn't think the break-in period would be that important--but it really is. My 2x12 sounded a bit squawky when it was new, but it now sounds great. I haven't used the 6x10 much yet, but I expect it will require some break-in as well. At 49 pounds sound guys are always amazed.

 

[alexclaber]

I wrote this in an email response on this subject - hopefully it makes clear the difference between accuracy and a 'refined' sound:

I think the difference you heard is that our 12XN drivers are extremely accurate, so you hear every detail of your sound, whilst the Glock drivers smooth things out (so basically they're more coloured). I believe there's a huge value to that level of accuracy because although it may not sound as 'pretty' when soloed, it sounds better in the mix, without resorting to the extreme colouration of something like a Schroeder.

From what you've said I get the impression that your Glock cab sounds much more like one of our 10CR models, which are warmer, fatter and sweeter sounding than our 12XN cabs - a flattering colouration for those who like it! It isn't really a neo vs ceramic thing but the neo magnets do have the edge when it comes to truthful representation of sound (they have a more stable magnetic field).

 

[Dragonlord]

Well, we really didn't hear it this way (didn't reply to that email because there's no point in debating over this). The Glock sounded more refined/detailed, not less - by more refined I don't mean "rounder", describing sounds with words can be tricky! One of us thought that the BF sounded muffled in comparison (he used the "blanket over speaker" metaphor). I've played through more coloured/traditional cabs but I prefer more transparent. The Super Twin was very nice on its own - it doesn't have to be better than anything else! Actually I had built too high expectations because they are marketed as the best things ever... In the meantime I also spoke with another local bassist who had run a test between a BB2 and a Vanderkley 112EXT (among others). He found them to be more or less in the same league and bought the Vanderkley. He told me that he found the Vanderkley's sound more refined and the BB2's more "primitive", which is exactly a word I've used too for the ST vs the Glock, so I know I'm not crazy or deaf, others have come to the same conclusion. It's all good - not everyone needs or wants the most hi-fi sound, these are great cabs for rock for example (the ST owner plays mostly punk and is very happy with his cab). They would make more sense to me at a lower price, but obviously there are many happy owners so they're worth the price to them. After much research I think my best bet for a lightweight cab in the hi-fi, Glockenklang direction might be Vanderkley (also considering Bergantino and Audiokinesis TC, but those are more expensive in Europe). I'll post an update when I get one (although I need to move some other gear first and the market for high-end bass gear in Greece is very slow, so it might take quite a while).