Ok so I have a markbass rig that I use for gigs and it’s amazing, gets the job done and can’t say enough about it. I have a Marshall dsl100w tube head laying around and I know from reading threads that there are varying opinions about wether or not you can use a Marshall cab for bass. Really wanna get my lemmy on and play through a stack so what Marshall cabs should I get? This would be a rig just for fun and maybe a few gigs.
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It seems as though you are looking for a very particular sound. It's unlikely that anybody else's experience will help you with this. I expect you are going to have to play through as many as you can and then balance experience with cost and see what you can end up with.
I have Marshall a 1960AX and 1960BX. I have played bass through them at relatively low volume and they sound okay. These cabs are loaded with 25W greenbacks so I would not crank them with bass. Probably a lot less risky with a 1960A and 1960B, as they are loaded with 75W G12T-75 drivers. I would probably still be a bit paranoid running a 100W head flat out unless I had two full stacks.
Viewing the driver's specs, I wouldn't expect a lot of lows: G12T-75
Why not try the DSL100 with an actual bass speaker?
I have run it w my markbass rig and it’s cool but really wanna Marshall stack. You think it’d be ok w the 1960 a and b?
Celestion doesn't list the X-max of the G12T-75. I suspect it is pretty low. The thermal power handling of each cab is 300W, but the mechanical power handling down low is most likely way less.
A full stack made up of a 1960A and 1960B might be okay with a 100W head as long as you don't go too crazy with bass boost. I would be a lot more confident with two of each, but that's a lot of cabs and dough!
You might like this post. How to get Lemmy Kilmister's sound?
If the speakers are making a "farting" sound, they can't handle the load and are at risk of being damaged.
Bass speakers are made to reproduce low frequencies. Low frequency means the speaker isn't moving back and forth very rapidly therefore is not pushing much air compared to high (treble) frequencies. To push more air so low frequencies can be heard, bass speakers are made to go very far forward and back. This is called the "x-max" of the speaker.
Another way to reproduce lows loud enough to hear without blowing up the speaker is to add more speakers. More paper = more air pushed. This is how 8x10 cabinets produce big bass with little speakers.
Any speaker can be run without blowing out if the volume is low enough.
Any speaker can be blown out if the volume is high enough.
This is especially true for volume at the lower (bass) frequencies.
So, guitar speakers are made differently than bass speakers and are more vulnerable to damage.
Listen for that "farting" sound and back off the volume and low freqs if it occurs.
Bass speakers are made to reproduce low frequencies. Low frequency means the speaker isn't moving back and forth very rapidly therefore is not pushing much air compared to high (treble) frequencies. To push more air so low frequencies can be heard, bass speakers are made to go very far forward and back. This is called the "x-max" of the speaker.
Another way to reproduce lows loud enough to hear without blowing up the speaker is to add more speakers. More paper = more air pushed. This is how 8x10 cabinets produce big bass with little speakers.
Any speaker can be run without blowing out if the volume is low enough.
Any speaker can be blown out if the volume is high enough.
This is especially true for volume at the lower (bass) frequencies.
So, guitar speakers are made differently than bass speakers and are more vulnerable to damage.
Listen for that "farting" sound and back off the volume and low freqs if it occurs.
Hi folks! I’m a long time reader, first time poster. I know this is an older thread, but I’ve been using guitar amps for bass for about 28 years now and I’d like to share what I’ve learned.
Can you use a guitar amp for bass? As stated already, it’s “yes, with an if.” There are limitations that will vary depending on the exact equipment you use, but it also depends on what style of music you’re playing, what sound you want to achieve, the volume you’re playing at, and what the other musicians in the group are doing.
Since I was 15 back in the mid-90s I’ve been using 50-100 watt tube amps…Fender Bassmans, Showmans, and Marshall Super Leads through an assortment of cabs. I’ve used plenty of bass cabs, but I’ve also used Fender 4x12 cabs, Fender 2x15 cabs with JBL D-130Fs, and one of my favorite cabinets for bass is a JBL 4622a Cabaret with E-120s…all considered guitar speakers today. I’ve never hurt a speaker playing bass through it. I’ve even used a Crate Vintage Club 50w 3x10 combo with an open back for a live gig. I played a Jazz bass through it for an indoor acoustic show at a winery with about 60 people. Worked great.
The music I play lends itself to the kind of tone you can get playing bass through a guitar rig. I’m into mostly classic rock: Led Zeppelin, Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Rush, The Who, etc. Those and other groups from the late-60s to mid-70s were going for a very different sound than the hard rock and heavy metal of the last 35 years. Yes, most bass amplifiers back then were rather limited in how loud and low they could get, and often they were simply more guitar speakers in a bigger box! But bassists weren’t trying to compete with drop tuned 7-string guitars and almost nobody had a 5-string bass with a low B.
There were some incredibly loud, and low tuned bass rigs in the early 70s (check out Greg Lake’s double JBL 4520 rig) but in general the bass guitar sat comfortably in the lower mid-range of the mix. In truth, not much lower than 60hz is really needed for a full sounding and punchy bass rig. For example, the modern Ampeg SVT 48HE 4x8 cabinet, which is a great sounding bass cab, has a -3dB frequency range of 60-20kHz, and a usable low frequency of 50hz (-10db). That’s the same low end response as a JBL Cabaret with E-120 12” speakers. Or a K or E-130 15” for that matter. Perfect for blues, R&B, and rock’n’roll, but would probably leave a Korn cover band asking for more.
For about 8 years I played with a rhythm & blues band that had guitar, bass, drums, keys, 3-4 horn players, and 2 female vocalists. I could use a 100w tube head with a JBL 2x12 Cabaret, and my Fender Jazz or Precision bass could be heard all over the stage. You really do get A LOT of volume from JBL speakers with relatively little power. I never needed more than 100w and never ran the amps into distortion.
Our group also kept the overall stage and practice volume reasonable. Drums are easily the loudest instruments, but our drummer wasn’t heavy handed and that really helped. The guitar and keyboard players were conscientious of not playing too loud or too much into the lower frequencies, so I didn’t need tremendous volume to overcome a loud band, nor earth shaking low end. I could use speakers that are often considered “guitar” speakers and get a really tight, punchy tone with some smooth mids not unlike James Jamerson and John Paul Jones. The bass could actually be HEARD!
But not all kinds of music lends itself to that kind of arrangement. A lot of guitarists like to play super loud, and if they crank up the bass, and/or drop-tune, there’s very little harmonic space left for a bass player. And if the drummer is heavy-handed as well, then bass players are forced to use super loud bass amps with earth shaking low end just to make their presence felt. I know, I’ve been there. When a Fender Dual Showman with two JBL D-140 15” speakers is literally inaudible for practice…well you get the idea.
As with any speaker set up…guitar, bass, PA, whatever, you’ll want to pay attention to your sound. You can damage any speaker. The “farting” noise mentioned in an earlier post can be hard to quantify without actually hearing it. A lot of noises from an amp could be said to be fart-like. It could be an indication that your pushing the speakers too hard, but it might also be a bad tube. In some cases it’s just a little tube amp distortion, which can sound cool. Listen to Jack Bruce with Cream, and especially his bass solo on “Apostrophe” with Frank Zappa. Bruce often used some kind of fuzz effect, but a cranked Showman or Marshall Plexi will do that all by itself when cranked and a lot of mids. In other cases the “farting” is just a little speaker breakup, which can also sound kinda cool.
There’s a few types of speaker breakup. One type of speaker breakup is where the voice coil moving in the magnet gap starts to move beyond the magnetic field. That limit is called Xmax. Xmax is the “peak linear displacement of a driver diaphragm” (JBL Professional) If the speaker moves beyond Xmax it’ll begin to produce 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortions. 2nd harmonics can sound quite musical. JBL specifically designed the 15” E-140 bass speaker to make use of 2nd harmonic distortion to give the speaker it’s “punchy character” (JBL Professional).
Today we are blessed with the isolated bass tracks from some classic records. The bass lines to “Tom Sawyer” and “Limelight” by Rush provide great examples of what I believe to be speaker breakup caused by the voice coil moving beyond Xmax. You can hear it mostly in the attack of each note…it’s a kind of mid-trebly growl. Obviously you’ve got to be pushing a bit of volume to make this happen. It can also be heard on numerous early Yes recordings like “Yours Is No Disgrace”, “Starship Trooper”, and “Heart of the Sunrise”. Another example is the bass line on Grand Funk’s “I’m Your Captain”. It’s very different from the fuzzy growl of tube distortion and can be achieved with solid state amplifiers. The first time I got this sound was when I was 15, playing a Rickenbacker 4003 through an early 80s solid-state Peavey Mk III head and 15” bass cab. I was surprised because I’d always assumed it was caused by tube distortion. At any rate, a speaker moving beyond Xmax does not hurt it. It can actually sound cool. But a speaker moving beyond Xlim will hurt it.
Xlim is the mechanical limit of the speaker and is typically much greater than Xmax. That’s where something’s gonna get damaged. Either the cone will smack into the magnet plate, the voice coil former will hit the back plate, or the voice coil might jump out of the magnet gap altogether and get jammed. In that situation you’ve either destroyed your speaker, or are about to. If any of that happens you WILL hear it. But chances are you’ll notice unpleasant sounds before that happens.
One “bad” sound that indicates you’re pushing a speaker too hard is a “fwop” sound. I’ve heard this, although I still didn’t damage the speakers, thank goodness. It’s very noticeable. If you hear something like that, back off the volume or the bass. Using a compressor can add punch to your sound, but it can eventually add too much punch, as I discovered with a JBL E-140 in a horn loaded 4530 “scoop” cabinet. The other time I did it was with an open back 4x12 cabinet. A sealed cab works against the free movement of the speaker cone, limiting how far it can move in and out, so it can add a measure of protection. But it’s not fool proof.
Sorry for the long post folks, I hope it wasn’t too windy. I see a lot of people interested in playing bass through guitar amps, but are afraid they’ll blow something up. It’s reasonable to approach playing bass through a guitar amp with at least some caution. But that could be said for any instrument. You won’t automatically blow a guitar amp just because you played bass through it. I’ve heard people say that and it’s hogwash. Just don’t go nuts. Start low, work your way up, and keep the same basic mechanical principles in mind you would for anything else. Everything will break when pushed too hard…speakers, car engines, airplanes, whatever. Most well tested machines will usually give you an indication that you’re about to go too far. Speakers are no different. Pay attention to peak power handling of course, and listen. For classic rock and R&B at moderate volumes, guitar speakers can sound wonderful for bass! Heck, most of our favorite bass recordings from the 60s and 70s and even the early 80s were done with speakers that are largely considered “guitar” speakers by todays standards.
Can you use a guitar amp for bass? As stated already, it’s “yes, with an if.” There are limitations that will vary depending on the exact equipment you use, but it also depends on what style of music you’re playing, what sound you want to achieve, the volume you’re playing at, and what the other musicians in the group are doing.
Since I was 15 back in the mid-90s I’ve been using 50-100 watt tube amps…Fender Bassmans, Showmans, and Marshall Super Leads through an assortment of cabs. I’ve used plenty of bass cabs, but I’ve also used Fender 4x12 cabs, Fender 2x15 cabs with JBL D-130Fs, and one of my favorite cabinets for bass is a JBL 4622a Cabaret with E-120s…all considered guitar speakers today. I’ve never hurt a speaker playing bass through it. I’ve even used a Crate Vintage Club 50w 3x10 combo with an open back for a live gig. I played a Jazz bass through it for an indoor acoustic show at a winery with about 60 people. Worked great.
The music I play lends itself to the kind of tone you can get playing bass through a guitar rig. I’m into mostly classic rock: Led Zeppelin, Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Rush, The Who, etc. Those and other groups from the late-60s to mid-70s were going for a very different sound than the hard rock and heavy metal of the last 35 years. Yes, most bass amplifiers back then were rather limited in how loud and low they could get, and often they were simply more guitar speakers in a bigger box! But bassists weren’t trying to compete with drop tuned 7-string guitars and almost nobody had a 5-string bass with a low B.
There were some incredibly loud, and low tuned bass rigs in the early 70s (check out Greg Lake’s double JBL 4520 rig) but in general the bass guitar sat comfortably in the lower mid-range of the mix. In truth, not much lower than 60hz is really needed for a full sounding and punchy bass rig. For example, the modern Ampeg SVT 48HE 4x8 cabinet, which is a great sounding bass cab, has a -3dB frequency range of 60-20kHz, and a usable low frequency of 50hz (-10db). That’s the same low end response as a JBL Cabaret with E-120 12” speakers. Or a K or E-130 15” for that matter. Perfect for blues, R&B, and rock’n’roll, but would probably leave a Korn cover band asking for more.
For about 8 years I played with a rhythm & blues band that had guitar, bass, drums, keys, 3-4 horn players, and 2 female vocalists. I could use a 100w tube head with a JBL 2x12 Cabaret, and my Fender Jazz or Precision bass could be heard all over the stage. You really do get A LOT of volume from JBL speakers with relatively little power. I never needed more than 100w and never ran the amps into distortion.
Our group also kept the overall stage and practice volume reasonable. Drums are easily the loudest instruments, but our drummer wasn’t heavy handed and that really helped. The guitar and keyboard players were conscientious of not playing too loud or too much into the lower frequencies, so I didn’t need tremendous volume to overcome a loud band, nor earth shaking low end. I could use speakers that are often considered “guitar” speakers and get a really tight, punchy tone with some smooth mids not unlike James Jamerson and John Paul Jones. The bass could actually be HEARD!
But not all kinds of music lends itself to that kind of arrangement. A lot of guitarists like to play super loud, and if they crank up the bass, and/or drop-tune, there’s very little harmonic space left for a bass player. And if the drummer is heavy-handed as well, then bass players are forced to use super loud bass amps with earth shaking low end just to make their presence felt. I know, I’ve been there. When a Fender Dual Showman with two JBL D-140 15” speakers is literally inaudible for practice…well you get the idea.
As with any speaker set up…guitar, bass, PA, whatever, you’ll want to pay attention to your sound. You can damage any speaker. The “farting” noise mentioned in an earlier post can be hard to quantify without actually hearing it. A lot of noises from an amp could be said to be fart-like. It could be an indication that your pushing the speakers too hard, but it might also be a bad tube. In some cases it’s just a little tube amp distortion, which can sound cool. Listen to Jack Bruce with Cream, and especially his bass solo on “Apostrophe” with Frank Zappa. Bruce often used some kind of fuzz effect, but a cranked Showman or Marshall Plexi will do that all by itself when cranked and a lot of mids. In other cases the “farting” is just a little speaker breakup, which can also sound kinda cool.
There’s a few types of speaker breakup. One type of speaker breakup is where the voice coil moving in the magnet gap starts to move beyond the magnetic field. That limit is called Xmax. Xmax is the “peak linear displacement of a driver diaphragm” (JBL Professional) If the speaker moves beyond Xmax it’ll begin to produce 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortions. 2nd harmonics can sound quite musical. JBL specifically designed the 15” E-140 bass speaker to make use of 2nd harmonic distortion to give the speaker it’s “punchy character” (JBL Professional).
Today we are blessed with the isolated bass tracks from some classic records. The bass lines to “Tom Sawyer” and “Limelight” by Rush provide great examples of what I believe to be speaker breakup caused by the voice coil moving beyond Xmax. You can hear it mostly in the attack of each note…it’s a kind of mid-trebly growl. Obviously you’ve got to be pushing a bit of volume to make this happen. It can also be heard on numerous early Yes recordings like “Yours Is No Disgrace”, “Starship Trooper”, and “Heart of the Sunrise”. Another example is the bass line on Grand Funk’s “I’m Your Captain”. It’s very different from the fuzzy growl of tube distortion and can be achieved with solid state amplifiers. The first time I got this sound was when I was 15, playing a Rickenbacker 4003 through an early 80s solid-state Peavey Mk III head and 15” bass cab. I was surprised because I’d always assumed it was caused by tube distortion. At any rate, a speaker moving beyond Xmax does not hurt it. It can actually sound cool. But a speaker moving beyond Xlim will hurt it.
Xlim is the mechanical limit of the speaker and is typically much greater than Xmax. That’s where something’s gonna get damaged. Either the cone will smack into the magnet plate, the voice coil former will hit the back plate, or the voice coil might jump out of the magnet gap altogether and get jammed. In that situation you’ve either destroyed your speaker, or are about to. If any of that happens you WILL hear it. But chances are you’ll notice unpleasant sounds before that happens.
One “bad” sound that indicates you’re pushing a speaker too hard is a “fwop” sound. I’ve heard this, although I still didn’t damage the speakers, thank goodness. It’s very noticeable. If you hear something like that, back off the volume or the bass. Using a compressor can add punch to your sound, but it can eventually add too much punch, as I discovered with a JBL E-140 in a horn loaded 4530 “scoop” cabinet. The other time I did it was with an open back 4x12 cabinet. A sealed cab works against the free movement of the speaker cone, limiting how far it can move in and out, so it can add a measure of protection. But it’s not fool proof.
Sorry for the long post folks, I hope it wasn’t too windy. I see a lot of people interested in playing bass through guitar amps, but are afraid they’ll blow something up. It’s reasonable to approach playing bass through a guitar amp with at least some caution. But that could be said for any instrument. You won’t automatically blow a guitar amp just because you played bass through it. I’ve heard people say that and it’s hogwash. Just don’t go nuts. Start low, work your way up, and keep the same basic mechanical principles in mind you would for anything else. Everything will break when pushed too hard…speakers, car engines, airplanes, whatever. Most well tested machines will usually give you an indication that you’re about to go too far. Speakers are no different. Pay attention to peak power handling of course, and listen. For classic rock and R&B at moderate volumes, guitar speakers can sound wonderful for bass! Heck, most of our favorite bass recordings from the 60s and 70s and even the early 80s were done with speakers that are largely considered “guitar” speakers by todays standards.
I used to use 2 of these with a 400W Marshall head
Marshall MBC 410 Bass Cabinet Black | Reverb
sounded incredible, but hard on my back, as each cab weighs 92 lbs.
100Watts with 2 of these would likely be all you need, assuming a decent PA
Marshall MBC 410 Bass Cabinet Black | Reverb
sounded incredible, but hard on my back, as each cab weighs 92 lbs.
100Watts with 2 of these would likely be all you need, assuming a decent PA
I would just do a cosmetic makeover on proven but cheap bass cab(s)--add a Marshall logo and grill cloth.