Beginner player advice

[greg429]

Hello - I’m a new member of the forum and this is my first post. Would be great to get some advice from you all.

I’m a late-beginner bass player currently taking private lessons. My teacher is essentially having me play songs of my choice (reading tab) and teaching random technique along the way. I’ve asked about theory/scales etc, but that’s not his teaching focus, and advises that “if I want to play in the band I should learn songs.” While I’m definitely learning along the way, my goal I’d like to learn as much as possible about the bass and become a complete player, theory and all.

Question - should I buy something like the Ari Cap theory course to learn that on the side or consider a different instructor? Or just stay the course at this point?

Would also like to get takes on the utility of learning theory at this stage? Thanks!

 

[Morrighan]

Hello - I’m a new member of the forum and this is my first post. Would be great to get some advice from you all.

I’m a late-beginner bass player currently taking private lessons. My teacher is essentially having me play songs of my choice (reading tab) and teaching random technique along the way. I’ve asked about theory/scales etc, but that’s not his teaching focus, and advises that “if I want to play in the band I should learn songs.” While I’m definitely learning along the way, my goal I’d like to learn as much as possible about the bass and become a complete player, theory and all.

Question - should I buy something like the Ari Cap theory course to learn that on the side or consider a different instructor? Or just stay the course at this point?

Would also like to get takes on the utility of learning theory at this stage? Thanks!

Ari Cap's Music Theory for the Bass Player winter cohort opens in January, and her membership is open now. The cohort means both support and accountability from both cohort participants and her personally selected coaches. The summer cohort is just wrapping up now.

 

[KenD]

My $.02 worth:

- technique should not be "random". Good technique is fundamental if you do want to be as good a player as your innate talent will allow and should be practised or tweaked in each session.
- learning songs is good. You do need some basic repertoire if you aspire to play in a band (of any genre).
- IMO you can and should spend some time in each practice session studying theory and practising theory-based exercises. That will benefit you hugely in all areas of your playing but especially if you aspire to play in an ensemble where you have the opportunity to solo. Knowing the basics of just scales and harmony will give you a palette of notes to draw from in your soloing.

Go slowly and be kind to yourself It has been said that students often over-estimate what they can accomplish in a week and greatly under-estimate what they can accomplish in a year.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

"My goal I’d like to learn as much as possible about the bass and become a complete player, theory and all."

I think you should find an in-person teacher who's on board with this 100%.

I also think learning as much theory as you can is a great idea, but not so much as you're overwhelmed by that and playing.

A little bit at a time is great for understanding how and why songs and scales and chords work, and how and why the bass fits in with all that.

Re. an in person teacher, don't settle on someone who can't help you move toward your goals.

 

[greg429]

"My goal I’d like to learn as much as possible about the bass and become a complete player, theory and all."

I think you should find an in-person teacher who's on board with this 100%.

I also think learning as much theory as you can is a great idea, but not so much as you're overwhelmed by that and playing.

A little bit at a time is great for understanding how and why songs and scales and chords work, and how and why the bass fits in with all that.

Re. an in person teacher, don't settle on someone who can't help you move toward your goals.

Thanks appreciate your perspective.

 

[greg429]

My $.02 worth:

- technique should not be "random". Good technique is fundamental if you do want to be as good a player as your innate talent will allow and should be practised or tweaked in each session.
- learning songs is good. You do need some basic repertoire if you aspire to play in a band (of any genre).
- IMO you can and should spend some time in each practice session studying theory and practising theory-based exercises. That will benefit you hugely in all areas of your playing but especially if you aspire to play in an ensemble where you have the opportunity to solo. Knowing the basics of just scales and harmony will give you a palette of notes to draw from in your soloing.

Go slowly and be kind to yourself It has been said that students often over-estimate what they can accomplish in a week and greatly under-estimate what they can accomplish in a year.

Thank you!

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Thanks appreciate your perspective.

Sure thing man!

 

[bholder]

Don't practice, spend time here reading about gear and getting confused. GAS is your friend. Buy stuff you don't need!

Not.

Go practice more!

 

[SteveCS]

Red flags to consider (and maybe think about a different teacher)

...

My teacher is essentially having me play songs of my choice
...
reading tab
...
teaching random technique
...
theory/scales ... not his teaching focus
...

• Teaching material should be selected by the teacher, not the student
• Get started with Standard Notation ASAP
• Technique is a series of ever-advancing elements, each building on the previous. There is nothing random about it
• What sort of music teacher can't teach theory?

Regarding your other question:

...

Would also like to get takes on the utility of learning theory at this stage? Thanks!

Absolutely essential, IME / IMHO. It will give everything context and help you grow as a musician beyond just the bass.

 

[greg429]

Thanks appreciate your take here.

 

[mambo4]

Theory is an 80/20 short of thing, where 80% of the useful stuff comes from 20% of the ideas you find in music theory. That 20% can be summarized as “enough theory to follow a lead sheet/ chord chart”

That is precisely what’s in the pdf linked in my signature

Also if pro or pro- level is the goal do all you can to learn to read

 

[gregmon79]

The one time I took lessons, the teacher had me buy an actual theory book. He taught me lessons from that which also taught me how to read music. But he also wanted me to bring in a song of my choosing each lesson so he could teach me how to play that song the last 5/10 min of the lesson to keep it interesting for me. So we did both. But he also told me to not learn from tab anymore if I could help it.

Just my opinion from the info provided, but I'd find a different teacher. Now there could be a method to how he teaches. Maybe he thinks it'll be easier for an entry level player to start with tab and songs that you know to keep it interesting. I have no idea. Ask him maybe? But in my mind, that isn't the best way to start learning any instrument. I learned on tab myself, but I'm "self taught". I wish I would've had a good teacher that taught me fundamentals and theory from the start. But then again, if I went that way with it (me knowing myself), I may not have stuck with it. I didn't take lessons until I was maybe 5 years into playing. And even then I only stuck with them for about 6 months.

But again, you want to learn theory and fundamentals. I don't think tab is the way to go personally.

 

[Geepers]

If a teacher starts you on tab, run. Learn to read notation from the get go. And start watching Jim Stinnet’s Real Bass Lessons on Youtube. They’re free and they’re excellent*. And finally, abandon expectations and just enjoy the delight of making nice sounds. It’s the only way you’ll keep going. All the best to you.

* the only thing of his I’m not so crazy about is his fretting hand technique … it would give me Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in a week (YMMV)

 

[matthewbrown]

Hello - I’m a new member of the forum and this is my first post. Would be great to get some advice from you all.

I’m a late-beginner bass player currently taking private lessons. My teacher is essentially having me play songs of my choice (reading tab) and teaching random technique along the way. I’ve asked about theory/scales etc, but that’s not his teaching focus, and advises that “if I want to play in the band I should learn songs.” While I’m definitely learning along the way, my goal I’d like to learn as much as possible about the bass and become a complete player, theory and all.

Question - should I buy something like the Ari Cap theory course to learn that on the side or consider a different instructor? Or just stay the course at this point?

Would also like to get takes on the utility of learning theory at this stage? Thanks!

I highly recommend developing a structured practice routine that includes short sessions working on a variety of different aspects of playing. There is a lot that you can do away from your instrument, too, especially now that apps like InTune, EarWorthy and TimeGuru are available.

It sounds like your teacher views playing in a band as the main goal for you, and that learning songs is the key to accomplishing this goal. I'm not so soure aobu tthat.

FWIW, i joined my first band at the age of 15 after playing bass for a few months and was playing weekly in a club a month after, having learned the songs well enough to do so, all by ear and watching the chord shapes of the guitarist's left hand. Granted it was a country-rock/bluegrass band, but the point remains that you can learn a lot of songs quickly ONCE YOU KNOW HOW TO LEARN SONGS. And that involves understanding a little bit of theory. I'm not sure that you should learn songs so much as learn how to learn them.

 

[jthisdell]

IMHO a good teacher should teach you technique, theory and how to apply the theory. You don’t have to go deep down the theory rabbit hole, but at least enough to know what to play when you don’t know what to play. Learning songs IMHO is a waste of time if you don’t learn how the song is constructed and why the tabs say to play these notes.

 

[TexasHeat]

I hope this guy is giving you a discount because he's only teaching you half of what you need to know.

You can go for a while just learning the songs, but you won't go very far until the learn the why's of the songs. There is no reason not to teach theory along side learning songs. Kinda makes me think your bass guitar teacher is actually a guitar teacher.

 

[Fretless55]

Reading is fundamental.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Tab is an absolute no-no IMO. Learn songs by ear, learn how to read music, study music theory.

 

[red_rhino]

Welcome to Talkbass.

You're going to get as many opinions on this (or on anything here, really) as there are people. In my case, learning how to play came first, theory came later. IMO, theory is still my weakest area. This is probably because I was largely self-taught and already playing in bands before I got serious about the theory side. Theory does not make you a great player. Theory makes you a more complete player, which part of the whole package.

As long as you're getting something useful from your teacher, there's nothing wrong with the approach he's taking. Learning some songs, developing your ears, and tweaking your technique, are probably the most useful and immediately productive things you can do at the beginning. (Nobody in a band knows or cares how much theory you know. They only care that you can tune your bass, know where the notes are and how fast you can learn by ear.)

But there's nothing wrong with wanting to know more about theory, especially if you are motivated to do so. If I had it to do over, I would take piano lessons (while taking bass lessons) with an understanding that you expect the instructor to focus on theory. The good news is that you cannot help but start to pick up the foundations of theory just by playing. It's unavoidable. (Like trying to learn how to swim without getting wet. It's just gonna happen.)

If you like your current teacher, and you're making progress, stick with them until they have nothing more to teach you and then go find someone who does.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Theory tells you 'How' and 'Why'. It's not music in and of itself. No more than an architectural plan is a building. Play songs and along the way pick up some theory that helps explain the song structure. The melody, harmony etc. Providing you with a language to communicate with if the need arises
E.g What is that major chord doing here, and not the expected minor chord