Behringer BDI21(Sansamp BD clone) + Mid Boosted EQ = regained mids?

NoiseNinja

NoiseNinja

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#1
I am experimenting with bi-amping, running my active PA speaker through the Effect Send output of my Trace Elliot.

The idea is to have the Trace Elliot set fairly clean and then run some kind of overdrive between the Effect Send of my amp and the active PA speaker.

I tried this for the first time at proper volume at rehearsal just yesterday with a cheap tube pre amp, with the pre amp's gain cranked fairly high, between the Effect Send of my my amp and the PA speaker.

It actually added a nice touch to my tone, but I will continue to experiment to see if it can be done even better.

So today I ordered a Behringer BDI21 (I watched a YouTube video compaing it to the Sansamp Bass Driver (which the Behringer is a clone of), and to my ears the Behringer sounded better, although quite similar. Like the Behringer clone had slightly more bite and mids (although still lacking like the original) at the same settings).

My plan is to try out if it does a better job than the cheap tube mic pre amp adding a bit of dirt to my active PA speaker.

However I am a bit concerned of the lack of mids the Bass Diver is known for.

Long story short, here's my actual question:

Would I be able to use an EQ pedal with scooped mids to fix the problem of the BDI21's (Or Sansamp Bassdriver) lack of response in this frequency area, and in case that would be a feasible option, would I get most out of placing the EQ before or after the BDI21?
 
#3
Well, yeah, but the whole idea is kind of getting the sound of the BDI21, just with mids added, so keeping the blend low is not an option.

The thing is if you overdrive the BDI21 a lot to compensate for low blend you wont get the same sound as a BDI21 with full blend and low overdrive, you'd just get a EQ'ed sound with some unwanted distorted fizzle in the background.

Thanks anyway.
 
#4
I faced same problem of lack of mids in BDI21. So I did this simple mod by FrankenP
Usually I use only adding more mids via this green switch with bandpass filter (silver switch) down-> activated, which is a standard BDI setting.
Sounds much more naturally now. Worth trying.
 
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#7
Calvera said:
I faced same problem of lack of mids in BDI21. So I did this simple mod by FrankenP
Usually I use only adding more mids via this green switch with bandpass filter (silver switch) down-> activated, which is a standard BDI setting.
Sounds much more naturally now. Worth trying.
Click to expand...


Thank you :)

So If I want both mods always on I just shortcut Bottom C12 with Top R17, put a 500K resistor between Top R25 and Bottom R25 and finally put a 10K resistor between Top C19 and Bottom R16, or have I misunderstood how that works?
 
#9
NoiseNinja said:
Thank you :)

So If I want both mods always on I just shortcut Bottom C12 with Top R17, put a 500K resistor between Top R25 and Bottom R25 and finally put a 10K resistor between Top C19 and Bottom R16, or have I misunderstood how that works?
Click to expand...
Exactly. It will work hardwired this way. But I would recommend to use switches. Gives more possibilities for experiments with more FXs in chain.
I remember somebody even used 50k pot instead of 10k resistor for finding right amount of mids.
 
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#10
You could also try the ADI21:
ADI21-large.jpg

Excellent mids control, and works really well with bass.
 
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#11
I have already ordered the BDI21, but it's not like they are unafordable, and at leas the BDI21 is of excellent quality.

To such a degree that judging from the YouTube comparison between the original and Behringer's clone, I prefer the tone of the Behringer.

As I said it sound like it has slightly more bite and tiny tad more mids from start than the original, even if the differences are minimal.

Actually after some considering I think I will most likely go for just the notch filter mod, but instead of adding the 10K resistor, add a 47K pot (the closest I was able to find to 50K), as Calvera suggested.

Also ordered Behringer's dead cheap knockoff of Boss's 7 band graphic bass EQ, so count on getting the rest of the way regarding EQ'ing my active PA speaker like I want it with that.

If the BDI21 in conjunction with an EQ doesn't work I can always go back to the cheap tube mic pre amp, and maybe still find use for the Behringer bass EQ with it, or try how my Joyo Orange Juice would deal with the task, although I'd rather keep it on the floor as an overall sometimes on gnarly overdrive.

And if it turns out the BDI21 works perfectly alone without the EQ, I can use the Behringer BEQ 700 in conjunction with my Tube Zipper, which I use soly as fuzz (as the filter section doesn't work) since it has no EQ.

I have a good feeling that the BDI21 with the mod, with or without the additional EQ pedal, will in fact turn out a success though.

And if it doesn't I am almost certain I can find other uses for that too.
 
#13
Calvera said:
Exactly. It will work hardwired this way. But I would recommend to use switches. Gives more possibilities for experiments with more FXs in chain.
I remember somebody even used 50k pot instead of 10k resistor for finding right amount of mids.
Click to expand...

So I got my Behringer BDI21 and a 47K pot:

amp.jpg

Now I am no wizz when it comes to electronics, so which connectors am I suppose to connect to what?

My immediate thought is that top C19 goes to the pin to the left on the pot (the pin in the far counter clock wise position) and the bottom R16 goes to the right pin (the pin in the position of the pot turned all the way clockwise).

Would this be a correct assumption?
 
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#14
No, It should go top C19 -> pot CENTER pin, then pot RIGHT pin -> bottom R16. Pots pins described as when pot axis if facing up and pins are away from you. I this case 0ohm should be fully CCW and max 50kiloohm fully CW.
But pots my vary, so you´d better test it with ohmmeter. But in every case it will be center pin + one of the rest.
BTW, in another thread I saw I´re going to test JOYO American Sound on bass. Any results already?
 
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#15
Calvera said:
No, It should go top C19 -> pot CENTER pin, then pot RIGHT pin -> bottom R16. Pots pins described as when pot axis if facing up and pins are away from you. I this case 0ohm should be fully CCW and max 50kiloohm fully CW.
But pots my vary, so you´d better test it with ohmmeter. But in every case it will be center pin + one of the rest.
BTW, in another thread I saw I´re going to test JOYO American Sound on bass. Any results already?
Click to expand...

I ended up burning off on of the connection pins on the pot, I said I was no wizz with electronics and soldering :p

So I just added the 10K resistor instead.

Seems to work just fine.
 
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#17
Calvera said:
Lol, funny that you suceeded in soldering these ugly, tiny SMD parts only to fail in adding such a big pot. But glad to hear it works as expected.
Click to expand...

Yeah, guess it was beginners luck.

This story didn't have a happy ending though:

Tried to make the second mod as well, and now the unit is dead.

Tried to uninstall the mod, still dead.

Seems like I just threw 30$ out the window (closer to 40 actually with the shipping and components for the mod included.)

Guess I'll have to learn to stop while the game is still in my favor :banghead:

So I'll have to do with my tube mic pre-amp and try to hook up the Behringer EQ afterward, for now.

Actually it didn't sound all too bad either, and with the EQ added I might be able to dial in the tone I want.

I might still invest in another BDI21 at a later point, hope for the best, and make sure to stick to the first mod (Thing is there's a little more room around the solder spots on the first mod, so less chance of soldering stuff together that shouldn't be soldered together and burn the printed electronic connections that way.).
 
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#18
Aaa, sorry to hear that. Modding SMDs can be tricky without sufficient prior experience in such a brain surgery. I had to use a large magnifying glass during my modding. You probably had fried C12, as capacitors are more prone to overheating.
Which kind of soldering pen did you use?
 
#19
Calvera said:
Aaa, sorry to hear that. Modding SMDs can be tricky without sufficient prior experience in such a brain surgery. I had to use a large magnifying glass during my modding. You probably had fried C12, as capacitors are more prone to overheating.
Which kind of soldering pen did you use?
Click to expand...

Just the cheapest soldering iron I could get.

It seems to work just fine though, and it's nice to have one at least.

Just wish I was better with electronics.

I did take electronic classes in public school, but that is a good 25 years ago or so, haven't used it much since and forgot most of what I learned.

I remember a bit vaguely the primary functions of capasitors, trasistors, diodes and recistors, and how to make a tiny explosion by connecting capasitors in reverse and load them with too much current :rolleyes:

I also remember vividly how our fist task was to learn how to solder properly, by soldering together a network of slim metal wires, which was tested by our slightly excentric and ill tempered teacher by throwing it again the board, crumble it together and jump on it. :bored: :rollno:

After this procedure we were assigned with the task of folding it back out straight again, and if more than 2 soldering points were broken we were to start all over.

I luckilly past this first test with non broken soldering points. :woot:

That's about it :p
 
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#20
To answer your original question, if you are going to try using the bdi21 again.

Put the EQ after the bdi and boost the 800hz range, that's where the sansamp is scooped and I would guess the bdi as well.
How much is up to you but the scoop is pretty deep.
 
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