Bergantino B Amp Vs TecAmp Puma 1000 / DNA 1350

[jjmf]

I recently bought a B Amp, played it extensively vs my existing amps- I have included some thoughts on this fantastic amp, but also really would love to hear from anyone who has had the chance to compare it vs the Puma / DNA Amps (in general but more so specific models noted in title). My main comparables based on what I had "in house" were 2 MarkBass - a T 800 and SA 450, and a Hartke LH1000.

So if you have any experience with the TECAMP / DNA heads- to any of these heads - I would love your input as I am still considering what might be best for my needs:
I want 2 ohms, and run Berg AE Cabs - 2 & 410's - love clear punchy sound - clank of treble with bass with cutting thru mix- ie - Rush, the Who, Tool, Yes, and modern tones - where you hear the windings on the strings...while still keeping a full bass sound to carry the bottom - (I call it best of all worlds) and use mainly Dingwall Z3 (super fatty p/us & Maple Neck/FB) and AB1 (FD3's) with Glock pre's.

I know DNA is better suited than PUMA based the ability to run theirs at close to their optimal Wattage - but it is noted - the sound quality is best at 4 ohms as per David N, but Puma has a dual power set up allowing me to run a 4 or 2 ohm cab on either side - so it would work too - so I'm mainly interested in tonal comparisons

here is my B Amp input (great amp - but couple short comings I "felt" IMHO)

very clear and articulate - great punch with berg cabs based on their preprogrammed profiles (very cool - usb interface for software upgrades and patches etc) A bit antiseptic or clinical and some how lacked weight of notes ... 4 band eq with tight medium and wide programmable "q" settings as well as user defined frequency points and -/+ 9db ranges would suggest a lot of tonal flex - which is true but very flat - which is both great and with out flavor when wanted (ie cant get the deep bass sound vs Markbass VPF, but B Amp had way better clarity - just didn't seem as tonally flexible...
SO No doubt its a really great amp with 2ohm D class 800w power - but I like to get a really clanky sound ala yes, the who, Rush, tool, and would need some front end preamp option to get from clean and clear flat to clank... (which may be the way to go)

Living in Edmonton - you don't get to go to local super bass mart and try out the greatest amps (can't find a DNA/Puma store with in 3 hour drive...- B Amp had to buy from Markham - 40hour drive...)

Thanks for all feedback to come in advance!!!
jf

 

[TMARK]

I don't think the Puma can get you where you want to be. It sounds great, but super bright is not its thing.

Maybe consider a Demeter 201 Pre with a stereo or 2 Ohm capable power amp? The Demeter gets the sound you seek.

 

[bucephylus]

My $0.019:

I have the B|Amp; and quite honestly, I don't notice any lack of weight to the tone.

But, then again, it all depends on what you are asking the amp to do. To me, it is fairly remarkable that the amp will drive two 4 ohm cabs. I'm not aware of any other micros that will do that. OTOH, if you are trying to drive two 4 ohm cabs to stadium levels, I would not personally recommend a micro to begin with. That's not what they are for. In my case, I also have a Demeter VTBP-201 in a rack driving a Crest ProLite 3.0 for situations where I want more power. If you like the general sound of the Berg, but want more force, the Demeter/Crest combo is hard to beat and not heavy.

 

[kjones]

I recently bought a B Amp, played it extensively vs my existing amps- I have included some thoughts on this fantastic amp, but also really would love to hear from anyone who has had the chance to compare it vs the Puma / DNA Amps (in general but more so specific models noted in title). My main comparables based on what I had "in house" were 2 MarkBass - a T 800 and SA 450, and a Hartke LH1000.

So if you have any experience with the TECAMP / DNA heads- to any of these heads - I would love your input as I am still considering what might be best for my needs:
I want 2 ohms, and run Berg AE Cabs - 2 & 410's - love clear punchy sound - clank of treble with bass with cutting thru mix- ie - Rush, the Who, Tool, Yes, and modern tones - where you hear the windings on the strings...while still keeping a full bass sound to carry the bottom - (I call it best of all worlds) and use mainly Dingwall Z3 (super fatty p/us & Maple Neck/FB) and AB1 (FD3's) with Glock pre's.

I know DNA is better suited than PUMA based the ability to run theirs at close to their optimal Wattage - but it is noted - the sound quality is best at 4 ohms as per David N, but Puma has a dual power set up allowing me to run a 4 or 2 ohm cab on either side - so it would work too - so I'm mainly interested in tonal comparisons

here is my B Amp input (great amp - but couple short comings I "felt" IMHO)

very clear and articulate - great punch with berg cabs based on their preprogrammed profiles (very cool - usb interface for software upgrades and patches etc) A bit antiseptic or clinical and some how lacked weight of notes ... 4 band eq with tight medium and wide programmable "q" settings as well as user defined frequency points and -/+ 9db ranges would suggest a lot of tonal flex - which is true but very flat - which is both great and with out flavor when wanted (ie cant get the deep bass sound vs Markbass VPF, but B Amp had way better clarity - just didn't seem as tonally flexible...
SO No doubt its a really great amp with 2ohm D class 800w power - but I like to get a really clanky sound ala yes, the who, Rush, tool, and would need some front end preamp option to get from clean and clear flat to clank... (which may be the way to go)

Living in Edmonton - you don't get to go to local super bass mart and try out the greatest amps (can't find a DNA/Puma store with in 3 hour drive...- B Amp had to buy from Markham - 40hour drive...)

Thanks for all feedback to come in advance!!!
jf

I very much appreciate your detailed notes, but that is not my experience at all. With some judicious knob-twisting, I can get almost any tone I want out of the B|Amp. Can you tell me what settings you're using right now? Now some of that might possibly have to do with the fact that I'm using the HDNs, which are pretty generous on the bottom end, but flat and flavorless, or tonally inflexible--those aren't words that I would ever use in reference to the B.

Do me a favor and let me know your eq and frequency points, and maybe I can help with a suggestion.

I have heard the Tecamp, and I didn't find it to be comparable for my needs.

 

[mmbongo]

But, then again, it all depends on what you are asking the amp to do. To me, it is fairly remarkable that the amp will drive two 4 ohm cabs. I'm not aware of any other micros that will do that.

Mesa D800 is designed for a 2 ohm load.

 

[bucephylus]

Mesa D800 is designed for a 2 ohm load.

I knew the D800 was spec'd for 2.67; but, did not know it was spec'd to 2. Thanks.

In any case, I still would not use a micro for the purpose the OP seems to be describing. YMMV

 

[bassbooty]

I like to get a really clanky sound ala yes, the who, Rush, tool, and would need some front end preamp option to get from clean and clear flat to clank... (which may be the way to go)

I don't think the Puma can get you where you want to be. It sounds great, but super bright is not its thing.

Maybe consider a Demeter 201 Pre with a stereo or 2 Ohm capable power amp? The Demeter gets the sound you seek.

I tend to agree with TMARK and bucephylus ...especially since Justin Chancellor, Tool's bass player, uses the Demeter pre.

 

[jjmf]

thanks everyone - as for Eq points I experimented with tones - and I am not suggesting the B Amp is not tonally flexible - and it does deliver punch - I emulated EQ frequency points present in several different amps

see excel table below if interested in amps emulated (its a quick down and dirty summary of approx. eq factors from various builders I was able to try at same time)
but went from many settings - ie running full range of the 9 DB +/- at points on all levels) for example - with a full bass boost (+9DB at 40, 60, 75/80, 100, 120 hz) and full mid cut ( -9 db at 200-800hz areas) with various high mid & treble options, - like every imaginable combo I still found the Markbass Eq with VPF use exceeded the range of tonal possibilities as far as deep bass boost, mid cuts, and Treble boosts etc) and some how the "push/weight" of the notes when playing live with band (a loud band) was greater with the MB - while the B Amp was absolutely clearer - but a bit middy/nasal-ish using the AE cabs.

I am just looking for input from those who have been lucky enough to have access to other key AMPS and the B Amp to give me some context and comparisons

Keep it coming !!! table titles - as below (sorry could not get excel to transfer table boarders -
Amp / Pre / Peddle Tone: Bass Low Mids High Mids Treble Bright Etc
Dark Glass On board Preamp 70 Hz +/- 12db 500 Hz +/-12db 2.8 Khz +/-12db NA TBD
Glock On board Preamp 40 Hz +/-14db 55 Hz +/-9db NA 18 Khz +/-18db na
Dark Glass BK7 peddle 100 Hz +/-12db 1 Khz +/-12db 2.8 Khz +/- 12db 5 Khz +/- 12 db TBD
SVT CL 40 Hz +/-12 db 5 points: 220/450/ 800Hz/ 1.6/3.0Khz -20db /+10db 4 Khz -20db / +10db boost @10khz
SVT 2Pro 40 Hz +/- 16db 40/90/180/300/500hz /1K/2k/4k/10khz 4Khz +/- 12 db (Q 2-30Hz) boost @10khz
Markbass SA 450 40 Hz +/- 16db 100-800 Hz +/- 16db 700hz-6Khz +/- 16db 4.5Khz +/- 16db VF
Markbass T 800 40 Hz +/- 16db 360Hz +/- 16db 800 Hz +/- 16db 10 Khz +/- 16db VF
Gallien Kruger RB 1001/2001 60 Hz +10 db Shelving type Boost /Cut @ 250 Hz Q Optimized Boost/Cut @ 1 Khz +6db Q Optimized 7 Khz + 14 db shelving TBD
Mesa D 800 & Hartke LH 1000 (no real data) Yes D800 Shelving Yes D800 na LH1000 Yes D800 Shelving Yes D800 Shelving D 800 contour/ LH 1000 Bright
Berg (+/- 9db) 40-120Hz 150-800 Hz 800 Hz - 3 Khz 3-9 Khz 2-10 Khz (+/- 10 db

 

[jjmf]

ps - what about the Demeter 1600 w power amp ? 4ohms at 800 w / side with Demeter pre? sounds like a winner!
as well - I demo'd the D800 (mesa) and found warm and mesa-like - but not as articulate as even the Markbass products (surprised me) in a test at L&M with Mesa Cabs (410 - hi-end series)
fyi and input

 

[TMARK]

ps - what about the Demeter 1600 w power amp ? 4ohms at 800 w / side with Demeter pre? sounds like a winner!
as well - I demo'd the D800 (mesa) and found warm and mesa-like - but not as articulate as even the Markbass products (surprised me) in a test at L&M with Mesa Cabs (410 - hi-end series)
fyi and input

I find the Mesa articulate but it takes some knob twisting. It's not extended in the highs. The knobs provide usable adjustment through the entire range of motion.

 

[jjk2007]

I have the DNA 1350 and it's fantastic for me. I'm a big fan of the Bergantino stuff too. Haven't tried any Tecamp gear. I don't have all the tech stuff in front of me but I really like the EQ points on it. A little turn on the knobs does a lot. The shape feature is an improvement over the old enhance control IMO. Still, less is more for me with that feature but it has its uses! Compressor is solid too but I don't usually engage it. I've had mine nearly a year and it through my DNA 210 have kept me a happy camper.

 

[kjones]

thanks everyone - as for Eq points I experimented with tones - and I am not suggesting the B Amp is not tonally flexible - and it does deliver punch - I emulated EQ frequency points present in several different amps

see excel table below if interested in amps emulated (its a quick down and dirty summary of approx. eq factors from various builders I was able to try at same time)
but went from many settings - ie running full range of the 9 DB +/- at points on all levels) for example - with a full bass boost (+9DB at 40, 60, 75/80, 100, 120 hz) and full mid cut ( -9 db at 200-800hz areas) with various high mid & treble options, - like every imaginable combo I still found the Markbass Eq with VPF use exceeded the range of tonal possibilities as far as deep bass boost, mid cuts, and Treble boosts etc) and some how the "push/weight" of the notes when playing live with band (a loud band) was greater with the MB - while the B Amp was absolutely clearer - but a bit middy/nasal-ish using the AE cabs.

I am just looking for input from those who have been lucky enough to have access to other key AMPS and the B Amp to give me some context and comparisons

Keep it coming !!! table titles - as below (sorry could not get excel to transfer table boarders -
Amp / Pre / Peddle Tone: Bass Low Mids High Mids Treble Bright Etc
Dark Glass On board Preamp 70 Hz +/- 12db 500 Hz +/-12db 2.8 Khz +/-12db NA TBD
Glock On board Preamp 40 Hz +/-14db 55 Hz +/-9db NA 18 Khz +/-18db na
Dark Glass BK7 peddle 100 Hz +/-12db 1 Khz +/-12db 2.8 Khz +/- 12db 5 Khz +/- 12 db TBD
SVT CL 40 Hz +/-12 db 5 points: 220/450/ 800Hz/ 1.6/3.0Khz -20db /+10db 4 Khz -20db / +10db boost @10khz
SVT 2Pro 40 Hz +/- 16db 40/90/180/300/500hz /1K/2k/4k/10khz 4Khz +/- 12 db (Q 2-30Hz) boost @10khz
Markbass SA 450 40 Hz +/- 16db 100-800 Hz +/- 16db 700hz-6Khz +/- 16db 4.5Khz +/- 16db VF
Markbass T 800 40 Hz +/- 16db 360Hz +/- 16db 800 Hz +/- 16db 10 Khz +/- 16db VF
Gallien Kruger RB 1001/2001 60 Hz +10 db Shelving type Boost /Cut @ 250 Hz Q Optimized Boost/Cut @ 1 Khz +6db Q Optimized 7 Khz + 14 db shelving TBD
Mesa D 800 & Hartke LH 1000 (no real data) Yes D800 Shelving Yes D800 na LH1000 Yes D800 Shelving Yes D800 Shelving D 800 contour/ LH 1000 Bright
Berg (+/- 9db) 40-120Hz 150-800 Hz 800 Hz - 3 Khz 3-9 Khz 2-10 Khz (+/- 10 db

I'm sorry, John. I can't tell from this chart what settings you tried out on the B|Amp, thus I can't make any suggestions.

 

[jjmf]

Thx kjones,I'll upload the excel file later when home (basically used the eq hz settings from each amp notes and tested with ranges from -9db to +9db for each

Jjk2007- can you add insight as to tonal differences between B Amp and DNA amps?

 

[tombowlus]

I recently bought a B Amp, played it extensively vs my existing amps- I have included some thoughts on this fantastic amp, but also really would love to hear from anyone who has had the chance to compare it vs the Puma / DNA Amps (in general but more so specific models noted in title). My main comparables based on what I had "in house" were 2 MarkBass - a T 800 and SA 450, and a Hartke LH1000.

So if you have any experience with the TECAMP / DNA heads- to any of these heads - I would love your input as I am still considering what might be best for my needs:
I want 2 ohms, and run Berg AE Cabs - 2 & 410's - love clear punchy sound - clank of treble with bass with cutting thru mix- ie - Rush, the Who, Tool, Yes, and modern tones - where you hear the windings on the strings...while still keeping a full bass sound to carry the bottom - (I call it best of all worlds) and use mainly Dingwall Z3 (super fatty p/us & Maple Neck/FB) and AB1 (FD3's) with Glock pre's.

I know DNA is better suited than PUMA based the ability to run theirs at close to their optimal Wattage - but it is noted - the sound quality is best at 4 ohms as per David N, but Puma has a dual power set up allowing me to run a 4 or 2 ohm cab on either side - so it would work too - so I'm mainly interested in tonal comparisons

here is my B Amp input (great amp - but couple short comings I "felt" IMHO)

very clear and articulate - great punch with berg cabs based on their preprogrammed profiles (very cool - usb interface for software upgrades and patches etc) A bit antiseptic or clinical and some how lacked weight of notes ... 4 band eq with tight medium and wide programmable "q" settings as well as user defined frequency points and -/+ 9db ranges would suggest a lot of tonal flex - which is true but very flat - which is both great and with out flavor when wanted (ie cant get the deep bass sound vs Markbass VPF, but B Amp had way better clarity - just didn't seem as tonally flexible...
SO No doubt its a really great amp with 2ohm D class 800w power - but I like to get a really clanky sound ala yes, the who, Rush, tool, and would need some front end preamp option to get from clean and clear flat to clank... (which may be the way to go)

Living in Edmonton - you don't get to go to local super bass mart and try out the greatest amps (can't find a DNA/Puma store with in 3 hour drive...- B Amp had to buy from Markham - 40hour drive...)

Thanks for all feedback to come in advance!!!
jf

You are aware of the relatively recent development of the overdrive and distortion updates for the B|Amp, right? Just wanted to be sure...

 

[jjmf]

I heard it was coming but didn't know if it was now available ? Firmware v1.4?

 

[kjones]

I heard it was coming but didn't know if it was now available ? Firmware v1.4?

Actually I have a thread on it here.

New Features on the Bergantino B|Amp

Make sure you're registered so you get the email with the new firmware.

 

[jjmf]

I'm sorry, John. I can't tell from this chart what settings you tried out on the B|Amp, thus I can't make any suggestions.

Here is the excel sheet - outlining the frequency points i used on various tests - basically emulated specific makes Hz frequencies for Bass, Low & Hi Mid, Treble etc then worked thru many changes to db's (+/- 9) with in range of the very flexible Bergantino B Amp to work to get various sounds out of it

 

[kjones]

Here is the excel sheet - outlining the frequency points i used on various tests - basically emulated specific makes Hz frequencies for Bass, Low & Hi Mid, Treble etc then worked thru many changes to db's (+/- 9) with in range of the very flexible Bergantino B Amp to work to get various sounds out of it

I'm still not understanding the chart after reviewing it very carefully. Feel free to PM me about this.

Your spreadsheet shows that each adjustment is plus or minus 9db, and you are correct. You also list the frequency center options. I'm looking for what you actually tried with your amp. As there are 19 levels of adjustment with each knob, there are slightly over 130,000 possibilities of adjustment at each frequency center, which means, with the possibility of changing centers (not to mention Qs), there are literally tens of millions of possible EQ settings. I'm relatively certain you didn't try all of them, unless you're far more dedicated than I. I was curious as to the ones you actually tried, because what you related is far out of my experience with the B|Amp.

Just as a place to start, try this:

VHPF on at 40 Hz
Bass @60 Hz, +2
Lo-Mid @150 Hz +1
Hi-Mid @1.0 kHz -1
Treb @ 4 kHz +1

Bright switch at default setting and On.

Let me know how this works for you.

 

[jjmf]

thanks kjones,

I have tried these settings as well. not bad at all - but the dingwall has a very strong mid presence - and my preference may be for a larger / varied mid frequency cut while trying to maintain many adjacent frequencies - which is possible with the Markbass products by engaging their VPF, while boosting certain low and high mids you get like a large bass and treble boost with large mid cut, but can add a couple mid boost points with in it getting a big deep sound, while still picking points to cut thru the mix and maintain that "string windings" sound.

Ive been trying to emulate same using the tremendous flexibility the B Amp offers

Hoping to clarify the excel and what i have tried - (for anyone interested):
I used the frequency points of all amps as documented in the excel file (or as close as B Amp would copy- ie cant get 1khz from B Amp Low mid)
and then used various DB adjustments - running scope from -9 to + 9db including varying the q settings Wide, Medium, Narrow)
didn't try -9 on any bass frequencies etc - "cuz thats not what i am lookin for"

so I set up to emulate the amps noted in the excel file, then mixed and match various Hz points from various amps, as well as just trying my own - the Berg is a wonderful flexible Amp, and powerful, very clean and articulate as we know. - the profiles create an efficiency with their speakers that really is a game changer!

Perhaps the confusion is that the excel file includes the ranges of db's which are present in the other amps (ie Markbass has a +/- 16 db range to adjust vs B Amp at +/- 9) ie its just a documentation of the hz points and db ranges of the amps noted - and since (to your point sir) there are 130,000 combo's (maybe more when considering Q settings?) its really hard to try and document the many settings I have tried / are possible.

I'm just finding that it does not have the push/weight to the note in some cases - ie you can't feel it pushing air as much when using over stated eq settings as much as i may prefer - its more of an issue with the AE210s than the 410's of course

I am really hoping the AE210 Profile is available very soon, and - Perhaps the value of the OD options slated to be released soon may help ! Getting a warm tubey goodness would be killer advancement and perhaps offset what i feel i am missing for my applications....
I wish I could get my hands on that test version as I only have a couple days left to make a decision as to keep the B Amp or return it under the very graceful Long and McQuade return policy since i had to buy it sight unseen (or heard unheard....)
L&M Markham ROCKS!!! they understand my predicament being across the country with no access and were there to help me find out if its right for me!
Bergantino also ROCKS!!! - they have been responsive beyond even the most unreasonable expectation one could have I have nothing but praise for them.

I may just need a pre-amp color device to max my use of the B Amp and enjoy the 2ohm capabilities i Crave (Mesa D800 didn't have quite what i wanted as one would expect given the price difference)

I would still love thoughts and feedback from any one who has compared the B Amp to DNA 1350 or Tecamp Puma 1000 or Demeter in terms of what they found differentiated the amps tonally / voicing

thanks to everyone for their insights

 

[Passinwind]

thanks kjones,

I have tried these settings as well. not bad at all - but the dingwall has a very strong mid presence - and my preference may be for a larger / varied mid frequency cut while trying to maintain many adjacent frequencies - which is possible with the Markbass products by engaging their VPF, while boosting certain low and high mids you get like a large bass and treble boost with large mid cut, but can add a couple mid boost points with in it getting a big deep sound, while still picking points to cut thru the mix and maintain that "string windings" sound.

Ive been trying to emulate same using the tremendous flexibility the B Amp offers

Hoping to clarify the excel and what i have tried - (for anyone interested):
I used the frequency points of all amps as documented in the excel file (or as close as B Amp would copy- ie cant get 1khz from B Amp Low mid)
and then used various DB adjustments - running scope from -9 to + 9db including varying the q settings Wide, Medium, Narrow)
didn't try -9 on any bass frequencies etc - "cuz thats not what i am lookin for"

so I set up to emulate the amps noted in the excel file, then mixed and match various Hz points from various amps, as well as just trying my own

Here's something you might want to at least consider: all those frequency specs for analog EQ are typically specific to full boost or cut, and they can move around considerably at intermediate settings. So if you want to go all in on your quest you would arguably need to actually measure the freq centers, hinge points, or peak/valley points at actual settings you use, unless you have the capability of modeling the circuit behaviors, or manufacturers' EQ curve sets. Digital EQ very often does not work the same way, and the numbers may well be consistent regardless of degree of boost or cut, so you may just be at apples and oranges right now.