Billy Sheehan 3-finger plucking technique

[smeet]

So... I'm trying to increase my right hand plucking speed. I've been using a pick more lately, and realize that my left hand is MUCH MUCH faster than my right. People like Hardrien Feraud can play unbelievably fast with just two fingers, but I don't think most normal humans can do that no matter how much they practice. So I've been working on a variety of multi-fingeral techniques.

1) T-I-M-R plucking that a lot of the jazz type players are using these days. I'm pretty uneven sounding with that still, but I see how to get better. But the sound from that is very different from normal rock plucking. This is true even for the virtuosos. It's somewhat light and precise sounding, as opposed to fat and strong like normal 2-finger plucking.

2) Sheehan R-M-I-R-M-I plucking. For years now I've been using this when I need to ride on a single note fast (like 16ths at 130+ bpm). I'm pretty good at that, I can get a good steady groove going at a fast tempo, and it sounds very even, and is quite relaxed. But that's like step 0. When you throw in different fingerings and string crossings, it gets very hard to keep to the RMI picking, even at relatively slow tempos. Sheehan seems to have arrived at his technique pretty organically, and it seems effortless for him.

3) Just today I decided to try P-R-M-I, so I'll see where that goes. My pinky is quite short and weak, but maybe over time it will start to sound more like the other fingers.

I know that by making up exercises for myself I will improve over time. But it occurs to me that I haven't seen anybody but Sheehan use his technique effectively. Is that because most people's joints, muscles, and nervous systems just won't work that way at those tempos?

If anybody has pointers on how to get smooth with this technique I would love to hear them.

 

[Rev J]

I've been slowly working through this lately:

http://www.stormthecastle.com/classical_guitar/Collection/120studies-for-right-hand.pdf

Granted I've had to adapt it to 6 string bass.

C/S,
Rev J

 

[Badwater]

So... I'm trying to increase my right hand plucking speed. I've been using a pick more lately, and realize that my left hand is MUCH MUCH faster than my right. People like Hardrien Feraud can play unbelievably fast with just two fingers, but I don't think most normal humans can do that no matter how much they practice. So I've been working on a variety of multi-fingeral techniques.

1) T-I-M-R plucking that a lot of the jazz type players are using these days. I'm pretty uneven sounding with that still, but I see how to get better. But the sound from that is very different from normal rock plucking. This is true even for the virtuosos. It's somewhat light and precise sounding, as opposed to fat and strong like normal 2-finger plucking.

2) Sheehan R-M-I-R-M-I plucking. For years now I've been using this when I need to ride on a single note fast (like 16ths at 130+ bpm). I'm pretty good at that, I can get a good steady groove going at a fast tempo, and it sounds very even, and is quite relaxed. But that's like step 0. When you throw in different fingerings and string crossings, it gets very hard to keep to the RMI picking, even at relatively slow tempos. Sheehan seems to have arrived at his technique pretty organically, and it seems effortless for him.

3) Just today I decided to try P-R-M-I, so I'll see where that goes. My pinky is quite short and weak, but maybe over time it will start to sound more like the other fingers.

I know that by making up exercises for myself I will improve over time. But it occurs to me that I haven't seen anybody but Sheehan use his technique effectively. Is that because most people's joints, muscles, and nervous systems just won't work that way at those tempos?

If anybody has pointers on how to get smooth with this technique I would love to hear them.

I think the reason not many people use the Sheehan technique is: it takes a lot of time to develop, and it takes several hours a day practice to maintain it. I've seen a lot of Billy's tutorials, and this guy is one hard working perfectionist. I agree he has a lot of talent. But he also puts in a lot of hours to develop and perfect his skills.

 

[smeet]

I've been slowly working through this lately:

http://www.stormthecastle.com/classical_guitar/Collection/120studies-for-right-hand.pdf

Granted I've had to adapt it to 6 string bass.

Awesome! I'll get right on that, thanks!

I think the reason not many people use the Sheehan technique is: it takes a lot of time to develop, and it takes several hours a day practice to maintain it. I've seen a lot of Billy's tutorials, and this guy is one hard working perfectionist. I agree he has a lot of talent. But he also puts in a lot of hours to develop and perfect his skills.

I suppose you're right, if it were easy, I'd be doing it too.
If I see enough ongoing progress to warrant it, I'll keep working on this for the next couple of months. At that point I obviously won't be Sheehan, but it should be obvious whether it's worth it for me to keep trying that route.

I figure part of this has to be creating new neural pathways for controlling different finger motions. Can't hurt to grow new brains even if I abandon this technique.

 

[Rev J]

I started using those classical exercises after looking at the guys using 4 finger techniques doing straight alternate picking and thought that that was really limiting the technique. I see the electric bass as being the lowest member of the guitar family. Also before Feraud started using that particular technique players like Gerald Veasley, Aberaham Laboriel, and Marco Mendoza were adapting classical guitar technique which has about a 500 year old history so it is pretty much proven.

C/S,
Rev J

 

[tbz]

I feel like I was forced to learn PRMI because I kept running into bassists around LA doing it and I didn't want to be left out.

It takes a while to get down but I've done RMI for 15 plus years now (yay Primus) so it hasn't been too bad.

I feel like the key to PRMI is hand positioning. This is probably exacerbated by the fact that my pinky is 60% of the size of the next finger. Make your pinky comfortable, and teach the other fingers how to adapt to it.

For me at least it requires a somewhat odd looking hand angle to pull off.

 

[smeet]

I feel like I was forced to learn PRMI because I kept running into bassists around LA doing it and I didn't want to be left out.

It takes a while to get down but I've done RMI for 15 plus years now (yay Primus) so it hasn't been too bad.

I feel like the key to PRMI is hand positioning. This is probably exacerbated by the fact that my pinky is 60% of the size of the next finger. Make your pinky comfortable, and teach the other fingers how to adapt to it.

For me at least it requires a somewhat odd looking hand angle to pull off.

@tbz, when you say "P", you mean "pinky", right? Because I think the classical method uses "P" to mean "thumb".

 

[tbz]

@tbz, when you say "P", you mean "pinky", right? Because I think the classical method uses "P" to mean "thumb".

Yeah. Pinkie.

I'm not clear on the classic terms lol.

 

[smeet]

Thanks.
So how do you deal with the P being the first note of the beat? Since it will tend to sound the weakest and thinnest of the fingers. Do you ever play the other way: IMRP ?

 

[tbz]

Thanks.
So how do you deal with the P being the first note of the beat? Since it will tend to sound the weakest and thinnest of the fingers. Do you ever play the other way: IMRP ?

Practice. It helps to consciously work to throttle the force behind the other three fingers, and keep them even with the amount you give to your pinkie, to keep overall volume even. But that takes some getting used to. I still have to consciously focus on that a bit still, when I practice but it's becoming easier with work.

Iirc I leaned that from John 5s bassist just by seeing him live. It's really obvious watching him that he's really feathering his first two fingers and laying in hard with the pinkie.

Those few times I've pulled it out live it's sounded pretty even; it sounds slightly less even to me isolated. So it's also possible that overall nuance gets somewhat buried in the mix.

I try to practice both directions tbh, but almost always actually end up playing pinkie first for some reason.

 

[lz4005]

....the Sheehan technique is: it takes a lot of time to develop, and it takes several hours a day practice to maintain it.

Several hours a day!? If any technique takes that long to maintain you need a different hobby.
Once you learn how to do three fingers you should be able to come back to it at any time.
I do it for about 30 seconds of one song in my band's current set and I never have to practice the technique. It just is.
Learned it in about an hour when I was 15. It's not that difficult.

 

[Badwater]

Awesome! I'll get right on that, thanks!


I suppose you're right, if it were easy, I'd be doing it too.
If I see enough ongoing progress to warrant it, I'll keep working on this for the next couple of months. At that point I obviously won't be Sheehan, but it should be obvious whether it's worth it for me to keep trying that route.

I figure part of this has to be creating new neural pathways for controlling different finger motions. Can't hurt to grow new brains even if I abandon this technique.

That's the spirit. The results can be rewarding.

 

[Badwater]

Several hours a day!? If any technique takes that long to maintain you need a different hobby.
Once you learn how to do three fingers you should be able to come back to it at any time.
I do it for about 30 seconds of one song in my band's current set and I never have to practice the technique. It just is.
Learned it in about an hour when I was 15. It's not that difficult.

That's impressive and amazing all at the same time. Another reason the masses don't use the 3 finger. Only a few could ever attain that high level of skill as you sir.

 

[smeet]

Several hours a day!? If any technique takes that long to maintain you need a different hobby.
Once you learn how to do three fingers you should be able to come back to it at any time.
I do it for about 30 seconds of one song in my band's current set and I never have to practice the technique. It just is.
Learned it in about an hour when I was 15. It's not that difficult.

I can ride 16ths or 32nds on roots with 3 fingers, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actual complex musical phrasing with string crossings and skips, like a Charlie Parker bebop solo or a Jaco line like Teen Town. Or even the super fast runs that Sheehan does.

Can you really pull something like that off after an hour when you were 15? If so, my hat is off to you.

 

[tlc1976]

I never put a lot of thought into it, I just do it because it is easier. I always have 2 fingers available for my next note instead of one. Octave jumping lines works nice using 1 and 3. When I started I wanted to use 4 fingers, but found the pinky was better used as a guide and/or mute than a plucking finger.

 

[JW_Manhattan]

So... I'm trying to increase my right hand plucking speed. I've been using a pick more lately, and realize that my left hand is MUCH MUCH faster than my right. People like Hardrien Feraud can play unbelievably fast with just two fingers, but I don't think most normal humans can do that no matter how much they practice. So I've been working on a variety of multi-fingeral techniques.

1) T-I-M-R plucking that a lot of the jazz type players are using these days. I'm pretty uneven sounding with that still, but I see how to get better. But the sound from that is very different from normal rock plucking. This is true even for the virtuosos. It's somewhat light and precise sounding, as opposed to fat and strong like normal 2-finger plucking.

2) Sheehan R-M-I-R-M-I plucking. For years now I've been using this when I need to ride on a single note fast (like 16ths at 130+ bpm). I'm pretty good at that, I can get a good steady groove going at a fast tempo, and it sounds very even, and is quite relaxed. But that's like step 0. When you throw in different fingerings and string crossings, it gets very hard to keep to the RMI picking, even at relatively slow tempos. Sheehan seems to have arrived at his technique pretty organically, and it seems effortless for him.

3) Just today I decided to try P-R-M-I, so I'll see where that goes. My pinky is quite short and weak, but maybe over time it will start to sound more like the other fingers.

I know that by making up exercises for myself I will improve over time. But it occurs to me that I haven't seen anybody but Sheehan use his technique effectively. Is that because most people's joints, muscles, and nervous systems just won't work that way at those tempos?

If anybody has pointers on how to get smooth with this technique I would love to hear them.

As you probably know, but others may not... Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen was doing this before Sheehan.

 

[JW_Manhattan]

I started using those classical exercises after looking at the guys using 4 finger techniques doing straight alternate picking and thought that that was really limiting the technique. I see the electric bass as being the lowest member of the guitar family. Also before Feraud started using that particular technique players like Gerald Veasley, Aberaham Laboriel, and Marco Mendoza were adapting classical guitar technique which has about a 500 year old history so it is pretty much proven.

C/S,
Rev J

Klaus Voorman used Thumb, and Fingers 1, 2, 3.

The famous intro to "You're So Vain" demonstrates his technique.

 

[NortyFiner]

I use the Sheehan three finger trick to keep up with galloping lines, like Iron Maiden "The Trooper" or Black Sabbath "The Mob Rules". I've tried to get the pinky involved as well to essentially machine-gun two-finger lines, but the ergonomics just don't seem to work for me...different finger lengths and strengths, as well as some flexibility lost to age and injury. That's life pushing 50 I guess.

 

[smeet]

As you probably know, but others may not... Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen was doing this before Sheehan.

Right. But that dude is so far off the charts I won't even pretend I can comprehend how he does it. What a monster!

 

[Maureen M]

I believe Alex Webster uses the 3 finger technique and he plays some very complicated lines. He has a book out. I'm a pick player so I didn't buy it but I've flipped through it, seemed to have some good RH exercises.