Double Bass Blending Pick Up and Mic -workarounds for single channel amps

W

willgoble

Jul 16, 2012
13
8
4,606
#1
Hi all, I bought a Claus SL a while ago before I was thinking about blending. I'd ideally like to get an Clarus SL-2 but finding available ones are really hard. Until I track one down or identify something I'd like instead, I'd like to have the option of blending my dpa and my realist lifeline.

I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff. I have the pre-amp that came with the DPA from Gollihur, and it's been fine for using on it's own, but I don't know if it can be used to take two sources and feed both into a single amp input - are any pre-amps decent at doing this?

Thanks so much!
 
#2
Your DPA most likely requires phantom power, which is probably one of the things provided by the pre-amp that came with it. So you're probably best off keeping that pre-amp and using that device's output as an input into whatever device you use for blending. Otherwise you'll also need to find something to provide phantom power.

And of course you'll need to match your 2 channel blending device's input impedance requirements, so you'll need to be aware of the output impedance of both your DPA's pre-amp and of your Lifeline. A typical 2 channel blending pre-amp input impedance will usually range at least between 1 and 10 Mega Ohms per channel.

Blending a mic with a piezo can be complicated. While I've got both a mic and a piezo system mounted on my DB, I've avoided onboard piezo / mic blending complications in favor of reserving the piezo system for either loud volume or for use as a personal on-stage monitor, and in sensitive volume, sending my mic output directly to either a separate amp or to an FOH. This seems to work nicely.

I did recently have an experience in a sensitive volume venue with a FOH wanting both the piezo and mic as separate signals to blend in their mixer, and that worked out nicely, although from the sound I picked up, it probably would have done just as well with just the mic input.

I'm relatively new at this. We have some very experienced DB / audio tech people here who may have excellent recommendations to also consider.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jason Sypher
#3
dhergert said:
Your DPA most likely requires phantom power, which is probably one of the things provided by the pre-amp that came with it. So you're probably best off keeping that pre-amp and using that device's output as an input into whatever device you use for blending. Otherwise you'll also need to find something to provide phantom power.

And of course you'll need to match your 2 channel blending device's input impedance requirements, so you'll need to be aware of the output impedance of both your DPA's pre-amp and of your Lifeline. A typical 2 channel blending pre-amp input impedance will usually range at least between 1 and 10 Mega Ohms per channel.
Click to expand...
Thanks for bringing up these particulars. Yep, the DPA requires phantom, which is provided via the ART MP/C pre-amp.

I will check on the impedence levels, thanks!

So, you're saying that I can use an output on the pre-amp as an input for...what exactly? Had trouble following that.

Thanks again!
Will
 
  • Like
Reactions: Don Hergert
#4
You can basically daisy chain a single channel pre-amp into a dual channel pre-amp (or other blending device) if you want to, which is what I was suggesting in this case... Since your DPA pre-amp is already providing phantom power it's probably worth it to hang onto it rather than hunt up another phantom power device, which might be difficult to find combined with a 2-channel blending device. So my suggestion would be to basically use the output from the DPA pre-amp as input into your blending device (along with your piezo output going into the other channel).

(I actually am using an onboard 2-channel blending pre-amp, but I'm using it for blending my 2-channel piezo (Vic's Model C, bridge-wing and fingerboard stereo pickups). That's another reason I didn't want to blend my piezo output with my mic output; I already have one blending pre-amp on board and really don't want the added complication of a second one on board. I've played with blending these two outputs with a 2-channel combo amp and it works, but I'd rather keep it simpler and either use the piezo system or the mic, based on volume needs.)
 
Last edited:
#5
I have a 2 channel Clarus which I bought for blending. It has 48vt phantom power. Realist Lifeline and Schoeps MK4. Mic is good enough without blending for my gigs and a few years ago I did try blending a lot. Dhergert experience sounds the same as what I had. If you need the volume Clarus will serve you well. Not sure what to think since the company closed. Pretty sure you could get one if that is what you want. I’ll keep mine until it dies and I can’t find anyone to fix it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Don Hergert
#6
IMG_1448.jpeg
With the passing of Rick Jones there will be a handful of Claris SL-2’s available and once they’re gone their gone. The best way to to do a blend IME is using the Headway EDB-2 H.E. They are reasonably priced, full featured, small footprint, and are powered with two 9 volt Batteries or AC adaptor.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: hensonbass, willgoble, Don Hergert and 2 others
#8
james condino said:
Redeye twin.
Click to expand...

Love the RedEye, the DPA 4099 B the OP has works best ( is the quietest with 48v Phantom) he has a Phantom Power supply

so he could definitely use the Art Phantom in front of the RedEye Twin. The Red Eye twin is $295.00 The Headway EDB-2 H.E. Is $349.00

So ones $50.00 cheaper and ones got more features with a single box. Depends on which way seems best.
 
  • Like
Reactions: willgoble, Don Hergert and Jason Sypher
#9
You could use a Piezo PreAmp like the F-Deck or https://www.thomann.de/de/tritonaudio_bigamp_piezo.htm to adapt the piezo needing high impedance. Your Clarus PreAmp would be good for that, too. Then use a USB 2 channel interface providing phantom power for the microphone and the Triton bigamp piezo preamp like https://www.thomann.de/de/swissonic_audio_2.htm to mix the piezo and the microphone signal. The LD systems FX 300 has piezo and microphone input in one box: https://www.thomann.de/de/ld_systems_fx_300.htm
Some USB interfaces have a microphone input with phantom power and an instrument input with 1 M, if your piezo works with that, there are small mixers with that combination as well.
I use the Triton bigamp piezo and an older USB interface not longer in production, if I want to mix microphone and piezo, since I have both, and it works well. Have not tested the other devices I listed, but all are below € 200.- to supply the function. The Triton seems to be just part of the cable and practically vanishes, some USB interfaces are really small and could even be mounted on the tail piece to have easy access. If I would have to buy new, I would probably try the Zoom U-22 as a very cheap option ( https://www.thomann.de/de/zoom_u_22.htm ), since it has battery operation and cost just € 35.-
Probably the more expensive options like a Headway or Stanley Clarke (https://www.thomann.de/de/ebs_stanley_clarke_pre_amp.htm) would be better, but the listed option should work in live situations, maybe with an USB power bank as supply option.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zbysek and willgoble
#12
brianrost said:
If you have the money, Grace Felix. It's AC powered which I trust more than wall wart supplies.

View attachment 5078480
Click to expand...

It’s a great box, I was an early adopter when they were less expensive. I would say that since the OP already owns a Claris SL-1, based on my experience either the Grace Felix, RedEye Twin or the Headway EDB-2 H.E. are great choices depending on how much you’re willing to spend and what level of feedback, timbre enhancement, and phantom power options you desire.

P.S. I've never used my Single Channel RedEye other than a stomp-box in front of the Traynor SB-106 or directly into a powered MAS 1/8 in my practice space. I would want
event though I think the RedEye's voicing and "treble control" gives you a good deal of
flexibility, personally I'd want to have full EQ for both channels, low cut filter, phase reverse
etc.
 
Last edited:
#14
All Three said:
This is probably dumb speculation.... BUT, is it possible to achieve a second channel (although without controls) by sending a signal through the effects return? Yes, you would need a box to give you tone control, volume, etc. Just wondering if it would be possible.
Click to expand...

Yes!

I’ve used the preamp of a Clarus series 3 as a mic pre with 48v phantom sent to the FX return of a Clarus SL to do exactly this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: james condino and Ric Vice
#15
All Three said:
This is probably dumb speculation.... BUT, is it possible to achieve a second channel (although without controls) by sending a signal through the effects return? Yes, you would need a box to give you tone control, volume, etc. Just wondering if it would be possible.
Click to expand...


It depends on whether the effects loop is series or parallel.

With a series loop the signal coming from the internal preamp is interrupted. The signal path is out the Send to a signal processor. The output of the signal processor is sent to the Return.

With a parallel loop the signal is split in two. One signal (dry) goes directly through the amp without any additional processing, except usually a level control. The other signal goes out the Send to the processor and to the Return. The level control is used to balance the dry signal with the processed signal.

Another possibility is a series loop with the switching on the Send jack. Most amps put the switching on the Return. This configuration is useful for slaving one amp to another, but it will not do what you want. The reason is because when you plug into the Return, it kills the signal from the internal preamp.

If the switching is on the Send, the internal preamp signal is not interrupted when you plug into the Return. However, whatever you plug into the Return may load the signal down a bit. This is because the output impedance of the effects processor may be relatively low, which could potentially degrade the signal. Theoretically it could also result in damage, although I don't think it's likely in most circumstances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DoubleMIDI and Don Hergert
#16
If you connect a preamp into the effects return of a single channel preamp doesn’t that “disconnect” any device plugged
into the primary channel 1 input? Wouldn’t that eliminate the blending of a mic and pickup unless the preamp was a dual channel device?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Don Hergert
#18
Ric Vice said:
If you connect a preamp into the effects return of a single channel preamp doesn’t that “disconnect” any device plugged
into the primary channel 1 input? Wouldn’t that eliminate the blending of a mic and pickup unless the preamp was a dual channel device?
Click to expand...

The Acoustic Image FX loop allows input in addition to the built in preamp, essentially two inputs going to the power amp. It’s very versatile.
 
  • Like
Reactions: longfinger, james condino and Ric Vice
#20
JeffKissell said:
The Acoustic Image FX loop allows input in addition to the built in preamp, essentially two inputs going to the power amp. It’s very versatile.
Click to expand...
So, with that in mind, theoretically that could be used to achieve a blend of a pick-up and a microphone. What would the trade-offs be to using that system versus picking up one of the remaining AI S4+ amps, for example? (I understand that I'd need to use the pre-amp/phantom if I'm running a DPA through an SL1 in addition to a pickup).

Feels cleaner to simply order a S4+ since I know of one available at this point and put my SL1 up for sale, along with my pre-amp.

Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ric Vice
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back