I need some information and recommendation on how to purchase a professional bass. I have my eyes set on a perfect double bass that costs around $50,000. I am a poor college student starting my master's but I can definitely afford monthly payments and earn enough money for a down payment. How do I go about finding a bank, credit union, or something that will approve maybe a 10 year payoff and approve of this loan?
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Buying a Professional Orchestral Double Bass
- Thread starter xxxmusicxxx97
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Um, I'm not sure that you can, especially as a student. Income potential for even tip-top level orch players is fairly low. For amazing players, it's just depressing. For those of us on the tier below, it's not even worth talking about.
There was a good thread about this not too long ago, which might offer some useful advice, and which I thought was quite informative - totally worth a read.
Example (off the cuff and only semi-accurate, based on my tax rates): So you buy a $50k bass and put $5 down, getting an OK interest rate of 5.5% on a 10 year term. Payments would need to be a little less than $500/mo and would probably need to be no more than 20% of your take-home for approval. That means your take-home income would need to be more like $2500/month assuming "normal" expenses and no other large loans and housing costs of no more than 25%. I don't know anybody with normal expenses, housing costs are always higher than 25%, and college students have loans, so you'd honestly need more like $2800/mo.
An estimated salary range to even talk about getting a loan like this is about $48-50k/yr. Which you wouldn't have as a college student. Which you wouldn't have in grad school. Which isn't particularly easy to make as a new worker, regardless of qualification. Which isn't even easy once you've got 10 years experience in many/most fields very especially musical ones.
I'm not saying that you can't, but it will be a really, really uphill battle, so be prepared.
There was a good thread about this not too long ago, which might offer some useful advice, and which I thought was quite informative - totally worth a read.
Example (off the cuff and only semi-accurate, based on my tax rates): So you buy a $50k bass and put $5 down, getting an OK interest rate of 5.5% on a 10 year term. Payments would need to be a little less than $500/mo and would probably need to be no more than 20% of your take-home for approval. That means your take-home income would need to be more like $2500/month assuming "normal" expenses and no other large loans and housing costs of no more than 25%. I don't know anybody with normal expenses, housing costs are always higher than 25%, and college students have loans, so you'd honestly need more like $2800/mo.
An estimated salary range to even talk about getting a loan like this is about $48-50k/yr. Which you wouldn't have as a college student. Which you wouldn't have in grad school. Which isn't particularly easy to make as a new worker, regardless of qualification. Which isn't even easy once you've got 10 years experience in many/most fields very especially musical ones.
I'm not saying that you can't, but it will be a really, really uphill battle, so be prepared.
i spent less than $8k - about a year out of college- on a bass that can and does compete with high level orchestral basses all the time.
you need to find your bass. you can't afford a $50k instrument - thats fine- a used high end shen will, i promise, 100% compete with higher level basses. not $100k instruments, but certainly $30k instruments.
you need to just find the right deal. they can be had all the time. even if its a stepping stone bass for you (i dont think mine is) it's better to be realistic.
you need to find your bass. you can't afford a $50k instrument - thats fine- a used high end shen will, i promise, 100% compete with higher level basses. not $100k instruments, but certainly $30k instruments.
you need to just find the right deal. they can be had all the time. even if its a stepping stone bass for you (i dont think mine is) it's better to be realistic.
This. The most you need to spend to have a bass that won't lose you jobs is 10k. If you have a good 10k bass you will be judged on your playing, which is what you want, surely?
There's nothing wrong with wanting a 50k bass, but be honest: you want it for you, not business. Nothing wrong with that, but best to acknowledge it! There are lots of very nice basses in Europe for sensible money, and I'd guess the States is the same. It's fun choosing, whatever!
I would start by looking at both of these credit unions. I've had great experiences with Noteworthy, and people seem to like Houston Musicians Credit Union.
This is Noteworthy
Houston Musicians FCU
This is Noteworthy
Houston Musicians FCU
Just out of curiosity, what kind of perfect Double Bass is this for 50,000? Old? Is it already setup the way you want it? Extension? It is a great feeling to find the bass you really want to play.
Perfect for orchestra? Perfect for auditions? Frankly, a lot of people have already answered the truth here. I've played all sorts of fine basses, but the subtle differences in quality between a top tier 18th century Italian bass and a modern bass don't mean as much in the section and may not be as valuable to you as the difference in price tag. I tried Tom Martin's 7/8ths bass he made 20 years ago and now uses for giging that'd knock your socks off in the section, and a good Pölmann might take you just as far as a lot of higher priced basses.
Setup and condition is as important to the player as how old the box is and who made it.
Ok enough blah, blah. If you love the bass, and this is the one for you, you have to buy it. Otherwise, it might haunt you later on that you didn't buy it when you had the chance. Good luck, I'm curious to hear what Mr. Neher will have to add.
Perfect for orchestra? Perfect for auditions? Frankly, a lot of people have already answered the truth here. I've played all sorts of fine basses, but the subtle differences in quality between a top tier 18th century Italian bass and a modern bass don't mean as much in the section and may not be as valuable to you as the difference in price tag. I tried Tom Martin's 7/8ths bass he made 20 years ago and now uses for giging that'd knock your socks off in the section, and a good Pölmann might take you just as far as a lot of higher priced basses.
Setup and condition is as important to the player as how old the box is and who made it.
Ok enough blah, blah. If you love the bass, and this is the one for you, you have to buy it. Otherwise, it might haunt you later on that you didn't buy it when you had the chance. Good luck, I'm curious to hear what Mr. Neher will have to add.
there is something to that. however, when i played that 1820s scottish bass at upton a year ago, marked at $115,000, i loved it. it was a perfect bass. but i plain and simple can't have it. sometimes that happens. i think part of finding "your bass" is price, timing, availability of what you want when you have money to spend, ext- all aspects of your life add up to what will become your bass. otherwise we'd all own a d'salo.
Yeah, that is definitely true. I had a colleague who told me a story about a great Maggini that he felt was THE bass for him. He couldn't afford it when he was younger. When it was up for sale again 30 years later, the price had gone up more, and he couldn't afford it then either. Still it was one of the great regrets of his life. Maybe that's an overly romantic view... or snobbery...
I'm making a similar purchase now, and I hope it really will turn out to be the bass I keep for the rest of my life. The feeling after playing a few notes, that this is it, and you can stop searching - if this $50,000 bass gives you that, then you should make the sacrifices to pay for it.
But basses are also a kind of investment - I hope OP isn't overpaying just because it plays and sounds good - it should hold its value.
I was looking around their website, and saw that bass - it is a real beauty! Also is is marked down to $95,000 if that makes a difference. $20,000 off. I don't know, but 115,000 seems like a lot for an English bass. Maybe it will come down more...
Sorry to get too off topic, but how did you like it? What was the sound like? If it sounds like it looks... wow!
Newer basses from excellent makers go for less than half of that (Arnold Schnitzer, Mike Griffin, Solano, ect.) you'd probably get more of a companion anyway, and something that competes. If you don't have credit or belong to a credit union, and you are going to a school where you are taking loans you can take out student loans through the school, most schools with music programs consider instruments viable to add on to the cost of attendance if a student needs. You need faculty to sign off of course as well as proper paperwork from the seller/maker. People do it all the time up here. However they're adding on 10k or 5k depending on what they are buying usually they can raise half of the instrument and take out a loan for another half. All this being said, I think a $50,000 loan is basically a new car loan or a small mortgage, and as a college student getting a loan of that amount would either mean astronomical interest rates or high minimum payments that are due right away (not like a differed student loan)... Pick your favorite young youtube bassists and see what they play on. Most of the younger guys and gals are playing basses in the $20,000 range or lower not because they don't have the funds or it was the cheap option, but because there are fantastic basses that sound incredible that may be either a newer bass or that might be an older instrument from eastern europe (or in some cases they got a deal because it was a fractional size).
Whatever you do: Buy smart and play in tune
Whatever you do: Buy smart and play in tune
it's a special bass, among special basses in that price range. if i were in the market in that range, i couldn't dream of anything more than what that bass does. i compared it to old french and italian basses priced similarly while i was there, this bass to me had a playing experience head and shoulders above the others.
the sound was extremely powerful, full complex and warm but with a nice point to the note- not too "buttery," it sounds like a bass that can be heard a mile away without any harshness in its sound whatsoever. i was really impressed at how full and beautiful it sounded at all dynamic ranges, from ppp to fff. its not a huge bass but not a small bass, the sound reflects that i thought. it's not the subwoofer that my panormo-shaped bass is, its more like the complete product of a high end sound sysem - it's all there. perfectly balanced from the bottom to the tippy top.
to get back on topic, i've never had a playing experiecnce like that bass. but, i can't go out and try and get a loan for it. is that bass perfect to me? sure is. but, the bass i got for under $10k creates 90% of that playing experience for less than 10% its cost. thats what the OP should be looking for i think. it's out there - like i said, my bass is a factory made instrument you can buy brand new nowadays for $12k after tax or something like that. i got mine used, even better.
OP needs to dig deeper. I make a decent middle class income but I'm feeding four other people so I'm functionally broke.
My pizz bass is a beautiful 100-year-old Saxon I have about $800 in. I bought it from a dealer, no less.
The arco bass is a Solano I paid $2200 for in a private sale.
Tom Martin bought a Maggini (?) for under a grand 40 years ago because he was in the right place at the right time.
A college student with no resources dropping fifty grand on their instrument is a setup to lose your investment through foreclosure or a decade or more of living on Ramen noodles just to keep playing.
I wouldn't.
My pizz bass is a beautiful 100-year-old Saxon I have about $800 in. I bought it from a dealer, no less.
The arco bass is a Solano I paid $2200 for in a private sale.
Tom Martin bought a Maggini (?) for under a grand 40 years ago because he was in the right place at the right time.
A college student with no resources dropping fifty grand on their instrument is a setup to lose your investment through foreclosure or a decade or more of living on Ramen noodles just to keep playing.
I wouldn't.
In my opinion, this is the wrong time to sink yourself financially that far. Unless you have affluent parents who can afford you a $50k bass on a "mom 'n pop loan," I just don't see it being a prudent decision.
High end basses are not holding value these days. I know of at least one incredible bass that has been brought down 40% from its asking price and still hasn't sold. The quality of new instruments has improved so much it's hard for all but the elite buyer to justify 6 figures on an instrument.
Hey, I'm just a hack of an amateur, but it seems to me that this phenomenon may be indicative of an overall decline in both income and career opportunities for professional bassists. Several very nice basses that have come to market in recent years were offered for sale by bassists whose orchestras, under heavy financial duress, had renegotiated contracts at significantly lower pay, or whose small-market "freeway philharmonic" groups curtailed their seasons, or who were employed by orchestras that simply went dark and folded altogether. One such bassist confided that he not only felt compelled to let go of one of his basses, but that his asking price (based on a market appraisal) was significantly more than he would be able to afford if he were looking to buy instead of sell. Jazz, classical, opera, musicals, pop, bluegrass...whatever the genre, it has become difficult to make enough to pay bills, much less drop $50k+ on a bass. This can't be good for luthiers either, as it may negatively impact the market value of their instruments as well.
-bob
It will be interesting to see how the equation balances out, as some of the variables change considerably. Basses are more expensive, the market is growing as more and more fantastic bassists come out of school each year, the supply is finite if not shrinking when you are looking at pedigree instruments/bows, scale/earnings for musicians has not kept pace with inflation and in many cases has significantly decreased, and depending on the market professionals/hopefuls are competing with amateurs turned investors, who saw that bass prices are rising faster than any other investment they can make.
Some of that is changing. As basses become less and less attainable for bassists they end up sitting on the market longer, and depending on how quickly the seller needs/wants to sell the prices are coming down from what they are asking. Many musicians are either finding other sources of income outside of music, or finding innovative ways within music making to make a living doing it so the financial equation is shifting for some. If I was in a position to do so I wouldn't be so confident that a pedigree instrument/bow would be as sound of an investment as it may have been 10 years ago, and if you have skin in that game you likely watch the bass market far closer than I do.
The elephant in the room? Modern makers. I am not going to start naming names because I will inevitably leave someone off a list or put someone there that people disagree with, but the reality is that we have some fantastic makers alive in the world today who are making instruments and bows that are just as good if not worlds better than their pedigree counterparts. The workmanship is amazing, the sound is impressive, the wood that they have at their disposal is stunning, and it is a fantastic time to be alive as a bassist when you consider the gear you can get your hands on at a much more approachable price point. That is not only the result of some really fantastic schools, workshops, and individual makers who are teaching making/repair/restoration at a very high level, but also because players are being priced out of the pedigree market creating a market for really fantastic modern work.
What happens to modern makers when the stuff coming from countries with a significantly lower cost of living continues to improve and the pedigree market adjusts/crashes? Let's not think about that right now.
I would definitely recommend anyone looking to get into a "professional orchestral double bass" and/or bow give a very serious consideration to something modern. For a fraction of the cost of pedigree you can walk away with something equally as good or better, which makes fiscal and rational sense to me.
Some of that is changing. As basses become less and less attainable for bassists they end up sitting on the market longer, and depending on how quickly the seller needs/wants to sell the prices are coming down from what they are asking. Many musicians are either finding other sources of income outside of music, or finding innovative ways within music making to make a living doing it so the financial equation is shifting for some. If I was in a position to do so I wouldn't be so confident that a pedigree instrument/bow would be as sound of an investment as it may have been 10 years ago, and if you have skin in that game you likely watch the bass market far closer than I do.
The elephant in the room? Modern makers. I am not going to start naming names because I will inevitably leave someone off a list or put someone there that people disagree with, but the reality is that we have some fantastic makers alive in the world today who are making instruments and bows that are just as good if not worlds better than their pedigree counterparts. The workmanship is amazing, the sound is impressive, the wood that they have at their disposal is stunning, and it is a fantastic time to be alive as a bassist when you consider the gear you can get your hands on at a much more approachable price point. That is not only the result of some really fantastic schools, workshops, and individual makers who are teaching making/repair/restoration at a very high level, but also because players are being priced out of the pedigree market creating a market for really fantastic modern work.
What happens to modern makers when the stuff coming from countries with a significantly lower cost of living continues to improve and the pedigree market adjusts/crashes? Let's not think about that right now.
I would definitely recommend anyone looking to get into a "professional orchestral double bass" and/or bow give a very serious consideration to something modern. For a fraction of the cost of pedigree you can walk away with something equally as good or better, which makes fiscal and rational sense to me.
I can't speak for instruments, as my beautiful 1850ish flatback Mittenwald bass - Meghan - is not quite in the pedigree league, but I have just gone throught the bow purchasing process. Looked at Tourte and Pfretschner among others in the £5k bracket, and eventually settled on a new Andrew McGill bow he made for me. Beautifully made, lovely to look at and play, and less money than the other front runners. The romantic pull of antique instruments and bows is undeniable, but logic says don't dismiss the modern option