Cabs: Ampeg 210av or Fender Rumble 210?

[Ladoo]

Hi guys,
First post ever! Building an inexpensive 210 rig. Not sure which of these cabs to go with. I don't like the sound of the Rumble amps. Not articulate enough for my needs but I wasn't sure if that was a product of the combo's head or the cab. I like the idea of the ported Fender design vs. the sealed design of the Ampeg. Question: would the Fender cab be more articulate with a different head? I noticed the Ampeg Micro VR head was also lacking articulation as well.
TC K210 is a contender but I don't like that you can't disengage the tweeter!

 

[voided3]

What amp are you planning on using? Those are two very different cabinets, price point aside.

The only sealed cabinet I own is an Ampeg 8x10 (which I enjoy a lot) so I can't provide direct experience with its little brother. I do, however, own two of the Rumble 2x10 cabs and use them with the Rumble 500 head or a GK 1001RB-II.

I recently saw on the Rumble Club mega-thread that someone posted the EQ curve of the Rumble amp when set "flat" (everything at noon) and they do slightly boost the highs and lows at that setting. I found my preference is to turn off the tweeters and roll the bass EQ on either amp head back a hair when using both Rumble 2x10 cabs as they are relatively large 2x10 cabs with a healthy amount of low end response. This subtle bass roll off will "tighten" them up just fine. As with any bass cab, using something like an Auralex Gramma under them can make a big difference in rooms with resonant floors, too, to prevent the overbearing mechanical coupling "boom."

Once again, I don't own a 210AV, but I do have an 810E and with a sealed design, the lows naturally roll off higher, which may be desirable if you seek articulation. The 210AV also is extremely lightweight, but it is only rated to handle 200 watts vs the Rumble's 350. From first hand experience with the Rumbles and from research here, both cabs are better used in pairs vertically if you can manage the extra cost and schlepp. If I had to choose one to use solo, it would be the Rumble 2x10, but either as a pair can handle a wide variety of situations. That said, I use an Orange 1x15 as my standalone cab as I have found it to outperform the Rumble 2x10 in respect to volume/headroom in this scenario; I always use the Rumbles as a pair outside of one or two past gigs.

 

[High Camp]

If you mean a "tweeter" for articulate, then know that the Ampeg SVT210AV has no tweeter.
But, the speakers are full range and it responses well to the treble on my Ampeg PF350, which is set at 8kHz.
(and yes, bass and mid work great too)

In other words, with the right head the 210AV cab should sound magnificent, as it does to me.
I'm not familiar with the Fender cab.

Good luck with your search!

YMMV

 

[Ladoo]

Thanks High Camp and Voided3! I was thinking of going with the Tone Hammer 350 or the Eden TN501 for a head. My thought was to eventually grab two 210 cabs (or a fifteen with one of the 210's) for bigger gigs. I'd use one 210 for rehearsals and small gigs. Now as for a High Frequency Driver, I could live without it 99% of the time. I would just like to be able to switch it off if I went with the TC K210.

Voided3, I too considered a single fifteen. I like the old school sound but not so old school that I can't get articulate sixteenths that pop when I want them. Wasn't sure how a fifteen would handle that AND allow me to hear it at gig volume.

 

[voided3]

Thanks High Camp and Voided3! I was thinking of going with the Tone Hammer 350 or the Eden TN501 for a head. My thought was to eventually grab two 210 cabs (or a fifteen with one of the 210's) for bigger gigs. I'd use one 210 for rehearsals and small gigs. Now as for a High Frequency Driver, I could live without it 99% of the time. I would just like to be able to switch it off if I went with the TC K210.

Voided3, I too considered a single fifteen. I like the old school sound but not so old school that I can't get articulate sixteenths that pop when I want them. Wasn't sure how a fifteen would handle that AND allow me to hear it at gig volume.

You're welcome! Two points you'll see repeatedly when searching these forums: 1) When running two cabs, they should be identical and you should stack them vertically to avoid phasing issues and to have the best projection, and 2) Speaker diameter doesn't necessarily equate to a certain tone with newer speaker designs. My Orange 1x15 is darker sounding than my Fender 2x10s, but it has more upper mids and is more efficient. I could replicate the mids using EQ with the 2x10 cabs, but efficiency is a function of the speaker and cabinet design.

I'm not familiar with that Eden amp but my friend has a Tone Hammer 500 and I have a Tone Hammer DI on my pedal board. I personally would spring for the 500 to ensure you have enough headroom when using a single 8 ohm cab, but they are great amps/preamps.

For the TC K210, you could always disconnect the tweeter if you don't intend to use it, but yes, having a crossover with an external switch does make it easier and simply unplugging the tweeter will keep the cab's crossover engaged (unless you bypass it) which will roll off some highs from the 10" drivers.

 

[Ladoo]

Thanks Void3 for your thoughts! Efficiency is a concern but not as much as tone for me. I would be more than happy to make up for lack of efficiency with another 210 cab and more watts if it sounds better. Still wondering if someone has some experience with both the Ampeg 210av AND the Rumble 210. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger but I don't like to shoot blind

 

[blubass]

I prefer the Ampeg 210av for overall tone, which is why I own one. It is slightly lacking in low end, which is easily made up by giving the amp a little low end boost. However, the Rumble 210 wasn't bad tonally, and can be pushed harder so there's always that to consider.

I tried a lot of different cabs at GC and settled on the 210av ultimately. I also shared your thoughts about the Rumble heads.

 

[Ladoo]

thanks for your input too blubass!

I prefer the Ampeg 210av for overall tone, which is why I own one. It is slightly lacking in low end, which is easily made up by giving the amp a little low end boost. However, the Rumble 210 wasn't bad tonally, and can be pushed harder so there's always that to consider.

I tried a lot of different cabs at GC and settled on the 210av ultimately. I also shared your thoughts about the Rumble heads.

Thanks for your input too blubass! I may be leaning toward the 210av as well. Just got back from trying some stuff out.
SamAsh didn't have much for 210's so I was checking heads mostly.............

Hartke HD410+Aguilar TH350=love the head but the cab lacked articulation (finger style) in the low frequencies at gig volume. I figure the 210 version would be the same.

Ampeg SVTpr07+Ampeg 410hlf=big warm sound but I couldn't dial out fret clank without losing clarity with the tone controls.

Anyways, I'm still not much closer except the ported Hartke HD410 got me thinking. It's lack of articulation in the low end might not be present in the sealed 210av cab. Thoughts anyone?

 

[JimmyM]

thanks for your input too blubass!


Thanks for your input too blubass! I may be leaning toward the 210av as well. Just got back from trying some stuff out.
SamAsh didn't have much for 210's so I was checking heads mostly.............

Hartke HD410+Aguilar TH350=love the head but the cab lacked articulation (finger style) in the low frequencies at gig volume. I figure the 210 version would be the same.

Ampeg SVTpr07+Ampeg 410hlf=big warm sound but I couldn't dial out fret clank without losing clarity with the tone controls.

Anyways, I'm still not much closer except the ported Hartke HD410 got me thinking. It's lack of articulation in the low end might not be present in the sealed 210av cab. Thoughts anyone?

Get rid of fret clank? Lighten up and play closer to the bridge

 

[Ladoo]

Get rid of fret clank? Lighten up and play closer to the bridge

Thanks but I am not a “clanky” player. I play very clean and clear because I hate the sound of fret noise. The SVT 3Pro just accentuated the sound of my left hand fretting without even picking! Weird. maybe the HF driver was turned all the way up on the cab. I forgot to check!

 

[JimmyM]

Thanks but I am not a “clanky” player. I play very clean and clear because I hate the sound of fret noise. The SVT 3Pro just accentuated the sound of my left hand fretting without even picking! Weird. maybe the HF driver was turned all the way up on the cab. I forgot to check!

That can do it. Plus bass in general is a bit noisy. Even touching strings to frets will make a little clank if your treble's goosed up.

 

[iagtrplyr]

As a previous owner of a 210av, I agree with blubass that the lows are a little light, especially if comparing to the Rumble 210 (which i have not auditioned), but the tone throughout the spectrum in the Ampeg is glorious. I like a clean, tight sound myself, without a lot of flab, and the 210 cab does a really nice job of it. Plus, it allows you to goose your bass control if you desire more bottom. I owned a Rumble 115 a couple of years ago and all I could do to reduce the boom was drop the lows and low-mids. Many people like the Rumbles, and they will play loud, but the Ampeg's articulation to these old ears of mine was clearly superior. Try it with a larger amp than the Micro (PF-350 maybe) and I think you'll hear the difference. On top of all that, it's nicely built and easy to haul. Try a cab audition if you can before deciding.

 

[Ladoo]

As a previous owner of a 210av, I agree with blubass that the lows are a little light, especially if comparing to the Rumble 210 (which i have not auditioned), but the tone throughout the spectrum in the Ampeg is glorious. I like a clean, tight sound myself, without a lot of flab, and the 210 cab does a really nice job of it. Plus, it allows you to goose your bass control if you desire more bottom. I owned a Rumble 115 a couple of years ago and all I could do to reduce the boom was drop the lows and low-mids. Many people like the Rumbles, and they will play loud, but the Ampeg's articulation to these old ears of mine was clearly superior. Try it with a larger amp than the Micro (PF-350 maybe) and I think you'll hear the difference. On top of all that, it's nicely built and easy to haul. Try a cab audition if you can before deciding.

Thanks lagtrplyr! Wish I could try them out before hand. Can't seem to find them in stock around me so I would have t order them. Anyone have experience returning items to vendors like sweetwater? I'm wondering If I'm going to end up spending $60 in return shipping just for the privilege of trying something out.

 

[JimmyM]

Thanks lagtrplyr! Wish I could try them out before hand. Can't seem to find them in stock around me so I would have t order them. Anyone have experience returning items to vendors like sweetwater? I'm wondering If I'm going to end up spending $60 in return shipping just for the privilege of trying something out.

Vendors usually charge you shipping if you return something because you didn't like it. They usually don't charge shipping if there's a problem with the actual item.

 

[Ladoo]

Vendors usually charge you shipping if you return something because you didn't like it. They usually don't charge shipping if there's a problem with the actual item.

Thanks.

 

[walterw]

Still wondering if someone has some experience with both the Ampeg 210av AND the Rumble 210.

the rumble is gonna be significantly louder and deeper. two of them would make for a loud rock rig, where the same is not true of the tiny, sealed 210av.

 

[Ladoo]

the rumble is gonna be significantly louder and deeper. two of them would make for a loud rock rig, where the same is not true of the tiny, sealed 210av.

Thanks for you input walterw! I figured the Fender would be fuller(deeper) sounding it, is ported, but would it be as articulate as the Ampeg in the lower register? I can make up for volume with a second 210av but I can't make up for lack of articulation with a second flabby sounding cab! oh the agony of decision making!

 

[walterw]

Thanks for you input walterw! I figured the Fender would be fuller(deeper) sounding it, is ported, but would it be as articulate as the Ampeg in the lower register? I can make up for volume with a second 210av but I can't make up for lack of articulation with a second flabby sounding cab! oh the agony of decision making!

nah, they both sound good, the rumble is just bigger and louder. it's a fairly compact ported 2x10, "flabby" is not an issue here.

 

[JimmyM]

the rumble is gonna be significantly louder and deeper. two of them would make for a loud rock rig, where the same is not true of the tiny, sealed 210av.

I kind of wish they'd bring back the 210he. At least I do until I pick up one of my 210av's and realize I don't need a loud rock rig. Oh sure, I've got the two most badass loud rock rigs in the universe but even them I use at the same volume I use a 210av.

 

[High Camp]

I normally use my Trace Elliot combo I got in the 90's for rehearsing (it stays there so I don't have to lug around too much stuff), but yesterday I decided to bring along my PF350 and the SVT210AV (my home rig).
I can always dial in a decent sound with the Trace, but never "great" or "good".
The Ampeg ministack was loud enough (still had room left for extra volume) and sounded way better than my good ole Trace.

So I'm finally retiring Ms. Elliot and from now will be doing the band-rehearsals with Ampeg.