Can you tell me what I am looking for? A tale of GAS and tone

[MiserMunster]

Hello all,

I am a relatively new bass player, as I have been a guitar player for 20 years. I was losing passion for music until I picked up my long-neglected EBMM Stingray. I started playing and subsequently started cycling out the guitar gear I wasn't using anymore.

I started playing in a band that's akin to ...Portishead is the closest comparison I can make.

Anyway, I am running into a bunch of issues with the tone of my instrument for recordings. There is 'a sound' that I am looking for, and I am not sure where to get it.

I Play fingerstyle mostly- Quasi-Jazzy / Boom Bap, Reggae, and Sade-esque lines.

I have an EBMM that I tried Medium and XL Round Wounds strings on that missed the mark for being too bright and boomy. Currently, I am trying flat wounds that sound too wooly coming through my cab, and recording it is just ok to my ears, even with futzing with the EQ.

Soo... I bought a Fender American Performer Mustang Bass- mostly because it plays like a guitar, but much to my dismay...whatever this grease bucket thing is, it sounds thin in a mix...Like it is really missing something. I thought with the PJ pickup configuration, I would be able to get P, and J sounds. I ended up getting neither, and while good, it seemed to be further away from what I wanted.

The journey continued when I saw a garish Dingwall D-roc on Craigslist. I traded my kemper for it.

I am absolutely in love with how this thing plays, and there is a pickup selection that almost nails what I am looking for on the E and A string, both live and when recording. However, when I play the higher strings, a pronounced growl comes through...Sounds godlike with a Fuzz and/or distortion pedal but not the style I am playing now. Definitely a keeper bass, but not the droid I am looking for.

Which brings me to the elephant in the room. The legendary P bass and all its iterations...

I think the tone I am after most closely resembles



Everything I am reading says perhaps the P is what I am looking for. However, when I hop down to the guitar center and play them, I cannot say I love the neck or the frets. Plus, there is a dizzying number of P bass variations and clones.

Do I just suck it up, get one, and learn to love it...is the tone that much more in the pocket compared to everything else? Should I get a MIM or MIJ (I have always bought premium instruments for resale value and quality) and just whip it out for recording? Or should I look to premium Ps beyond what Fender is offering to get a better experience... Dingwall Super P is back ordered 2.5 years; the G+L LB-100, as does Nash's, seems enticing. Then there are outliers like Suhr (love their guitars), Mike Lull (I live close to his shop, and his basses are the best I have ever played but $$$$$$$), and Kiesel/Carvin (might look better but resale is sketch).

Or is my problem DI? Should I get l a Noble and use the EBMM

My Comps and DI are the following. I have the Empress Bass Comp, the Agular TLC comp, I have the Two Notes LeBass, and the Sansamp VT

I know that was a lot, but I would appreciate tapping the vast knowledge repository of experience on this board.

 

[SteveC]

For a lot of things, it's hard to beat a P bass with flats. I have one. I like it a lot. I also have a Roscoe 5 that gets a lot of play.

That said, you have a lot of nice gear already. All 3 of those basses are great. You have one of the best compressors for bass you can get (IMHO) with the Empress. Many people get great results with a SansAmp.

But if it isn't the "sound in your head" it won't matter.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Hello all,

I am a relatively new bass player, as I have been a guitar player for 20 years. I was losing passion for music until I picked up my long-neglected EBMM Stingray. I started playing and subsequently started cycling out the guitar gear I wasn't using anymore.

I started playing in a band that's akin to ...Portishead is the closest comparison I can make.

Anyway, I am running into a bunch of issues with the tone of my instrument for recordings. There is 'a sound' that I am looking for, and I am not sure where to get it.

I Play fingerstyle mostly- Quasi-Jazzy / Boom Bap, Reggae, and Sade-esque lines.

I have an EBMM that I tried Medium and XL Round Wounds strings on that missed the mark for being too bright and boomy. Currently, I am trying flat wounds that sound too wooly coming through my cab, and recording it is just ok to my ears, even with futzing with the EQ.

Soo... I bought a Fender American Performer Mustang Bass- mostly because it plays like a guitar, but much to my dismay...whatever this grease bucket thing is, it sounds thin in a mix...Like it is really missing something. I thought with the PJ pickup configuration, I would be able to get P, and J sounds. I ended up getting neither, and while good, it seemed to be further away from what I wanted.

The journey continued when I saw a garish Dingwall D-roc on Craigslist. I traded my kemper for it.

I am absolutely in love with how this thing plays, and there is a pickup selection that almost nails what I am looking for on the E and A string, both live and when recording. However, when I play the higher strings, a pronounced growl comes through...Sounds godlike with a Fuzz and/or distortion pedal but not the style I am playing now. Definitely a keeper bass, but not the droid I am looking for.

Which brings me to the elephant in the room. The legendary P bass and all its iterations...

I think the tone I am after most closely resembles



Everything I am reading says perhaps the P is what I am looking for. However, when I hop down to the guitar center and play them, I cannot say I love the neck or the frets. Plus, there is a dizzying number of P bass variations and clones.

Do I just suck it up, get one, and learn to love it...is the tone that much more in the pocket compared to everything else? Should I get a MIM or MIJ (I have always bought premium instruments for resale value and quality) and just whip it out for recording? Or should I look to premium Ps beyond what Fender is offering to get a better experience... Dingwall Super P is back ordered 2.5 years; the G+L LB-100, as does Nash's, seems enticing. Then there are outliers like Suhr (love their guitars), Mike Lull (I live close to his shop, and his basses are the best I have ever played but $$$$$$$), and Kiesel/Carvin (might look better but resale is sketch).

Or is my problem DI? Should I get l a Noble and use the EBMM

My Comps and DI are the following. I have the Empress Bass Comp, the Agular TLC comp, I have the Two Notes LeBass, and the Sansamp VT

I know that was a lot, but I would appreciate tapping the vast knowledge repository of experience on this board.

Typing this is going to pain me because I am really not a fan of FMIC.

That said, like Sean said: "there's something about a P-Bass with flats ..."

I was extremely lucky, when I stumbled onto a bass (which is out of production) that matches the P-Bass exactly (and I made a comparison .mp3 file to prove it to people).

I'm sure there are a ton of basses out there which can get you close to that classic P-Bass sound. Of course, you can spend a lot of time and money chasing that tone.

So, here's the part that's going to hurt: a lot of people seem to be very happy with the Squier Classic Vibe (CV) line.

Certainly, they're not a ton of money and if you have a used instrument store near you, go there and try to find a CV. People aren't getting rid of them (so there's "holding value" answered) ... at least not around here.

Also, amplification affects can shape tone (obviously). Figure out what some of your favorite players are using.

With all of these things, be very careful not to fall into that "chasing tone/G.A.S" chasm. Find a tone you can get (that you can afford) and spend some time with it. Minor tweaks are frequently needed. Different rooms will affect your sound differently.

You mentioned recording ... do you know anything about mixing/mastering or are you just throwing stuff up against the wall?

Take some time to get comfortable with the sound you are getting and then, decided where you want to go from there (you may wind up not wanting to).

Good luck and if I can help ... yada ... yada ... yada ...

 

[JRA]

There is 'a sound' that I am looking for, and I am not sure where to get it.

sorry, i don't know where you'll get that sound either, but if you post some sounds that are close enough = lots of folks will tell you how they'd get it! good luck with your chase!

 

[Akiyama]

Nvm

 

[Doug P]

I’ve shared this many times so if you’ve seen it posted before, sorry.
So I use a Jazz bass with a Seymour Duncan Hot Stack in the neck position. Turn it up “to 10” and turn the bridge down 1/4 turn “from 10”. Gives, to my ears, a push toward the P sound. Of course the strings and rig help a lot !! Seymour Duncan has an exchange program on their pick up’s, but I’d call to confirm it’s still available. Don’t know if helps but thought I’d try to help ya find “it”.

 

[MiserMunster]

You mentioned recording ... do you know anything about mixing/mastering or are you just throwing stuff up against the wall?

I have recorded four records and have a fair amount of mixing experience. So, I know a fair amount about DAWS and arrangement. This is why I didn't mention my amp, which is a Hartke 4x10 and 1x15 stack. It sounds different in every single room. I usually buy premium gear but I am not above buying something that gets the job done. As for GAS, I usually roll through equipment until I find a keeper... I have 3 guitars that I am going to take to the grave with me but I did not get them until I had rolled through at least 20 others.

The Youtube I linked is the sound I am looking for. there is another video of his effects pedals which is pretty elaborate but I am assuming the bass is 90 percent of it.

My main question is there a Pbass instrument that sounds like a P but perhaps plays/feels better. Are the premium non-Fender Ps better in anything other than aesthetics?

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

I have recorded four records and have a fair amount of mixing experience. So, I know a fair amount about DAWS and arrangement. This is why I didn't mention my amp, which is a Hartke 4x10 and 1x15 stack. It sounds different in every single room. I usually buy premium gear but I am not above buying something that gets the job done. As for GAS, I usually roll through equipment until I find a keeper... I have 3 guitars that I am going to take to the grave with me but I did not get them until I had rolled through at least 20 others.

The Youtube I linked is the sound I am looking for. there is another video of his effects pedals which is pretty elaborate but I am assuming the bass is 90 percent of it.

(emphasis by Michael) My main question is there a Pbass instrument that sounds like a P but perhaps plays/feels better. Are the premium non-Fender Ps better in anything other than aesthetics?

I really can't comment. I eschew expensive instruments for expense sake.

The bass I have (the one I said is no longer in production) that sounds just like the ('79) P-Bass I own cost me $150 in a used instrument store.

I own a couple of "expensive" basses (the P-Bass and an SR2600), but the balance of my basses all cost under $500 (and I get great tone out of two of them).

G&L? MusicMan? I'm really out of my depth there, but I know the sound is out there.

Which one is the P-Bass and which one is the '93 AccuBass (I didn't touch the bass tracks) Best if listened to through headphones:

 

[4stringfarley]

What about the necks is it you don’t like with the PBass? It is possible to find a P with a jazz neck, there is always the option as well to take it down to a luthier and have it refretted. Personally I like the much smaller narrow frets.

 

[Standalone]

A Jazz bass can actually often get deeper tones than a P bass, which is mid-forward. Many reggae artists used them, notably Robbie Shakespeare. It's a matter of knowing where to set your two volumes and rolling off the tone knob.

That said, just about ANY passive bass played correctly should be able to get you towards the fat low hip hoppy tones you seek. It has more to do with how your hands pluck and mute the strings and subtle muting techniques than anything. Sure, pickup type and placement help; but my sense from reading your post is that focusing on technique before gear would be most helpful.

I suggest posting in the technique subform. Tell them that you've been seeking this tone through gear, but that maybe you'd welcome some input as to how to find that tone in your hands.

 

[tvbop]

The real "Elephant in the room"...is your fingers and ur technique. Played a few different makes over the years and now play a lowly Squire P bass with dead flats. That combo under "my" fingers creates a punchy thunder which brings smiles wherever I play.

 

[_Tay_]

Why not get a P Bass and change the neck?? I put a Status Graphite on my Jag bass and it is a beautiful neck. Thin, sleek and fast. Strong too! (i dropped it headstock first once and it cracked the bass a little... no mark on the neck )

 

[Five or Six]

You are in monetarily dangerous water. You can spend all types of money chasing this percieved sound. IF you have a bass you like and sounds close to what you want, IMHO stay with it and play another expensive game, strings. Enlist some help from your band mates at rehearsal and see what they say? You may be to hard on yourself trying to reach a "perfect " expensive unobtainable goal. Good luck!

 

[Stylee Mousse]

The tone should be what works for the band, and the song foremost.

Given your time spent already in music you know this. Listen to some solo’ed bass tracks from great songs and almost none of them are, or were, the tone in the bass players head going in to the session.

 

[Green Knight]

Are you playing with others?
I find the more I play alone, the more I get obsessed about the sound coming out of the amp.
When I jam every weekend, however, it's all about the sound of the bass in relation to the other instruments. I think much less solipsistically in those situations about my own, specific tone.

 

[logdrum]

You already have good equipment (better than me for sure and better than most here) But you need to explore strings. And most of them will need to break in a bit. I suggest GHS Precision Flats and also Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats. For the sound in the video the GHS or a DR Legends Flat might get get you there. But you need for them to break in

The Noble is expensive and to get one now you have to pay extra but that may not be an issue for you. But a good channel strip (hardware or plugin (as long has your interface has good inputs )) is all you probably need.

You do not need a P. The StingRay unless something is wrong with it is very versatile

 

[hooky_marr]

It’s hard to get an “exact” sound - especially if you’re trying to reproduce a sound from a record, vs what works in a live context or in the context of the specific band.

If you’re doing dubby / spacey / Motown-y lines, want to preserve a bit more fundamental, more string tension than a short scale, but more comfortable than a P-bass, what I might suggest is:

• J-bass but with larger soapbar pickups or MM styles
• A medium scale (32”) instrument
• A multiscale-short scale like the Ibanez EHB1005-SMS, which has 32” on the low B and 30” on the high G
• Try coated roundwound or “ground wound” strings for a less bright sound but not as dead as flatwounds
• Try a string wrap or Nordymute to deaden strings if that helps
• If you’re trying to get it live, Look into a combination of 15” cabs for the lows, and an “array” speaker cab like a Phil Jones for punchier mids?

 

[smeet]

P basses have a great sound. But you can get close to that sound with many basses if they have a pickup in the right location. I’ve played a few P type basses from different manufacturers (Yahama, Roscoe, Nordstrand, Sadowsky, etc.). They can all get the P sound, and for me most have nicer necks than the Fenders. Bang for the buck, I would try Yamaha, especially the BB line. They sound and feel great, even the lower end models.

 

[REV]

Sooo many people try to achieve the sound of a P bass with flats using some other kind of bass. I'm not saying it can't be done but it is easier done using a P bass with flats. Sean Hurley uses LaBella flats you might try these. I've noticed that the height of his pickups is on the low side so you might try lowering your pickups a little. Sean also has this mute thing on his bass. I don't really know what it is but I sometimes use a piece of foam underneath the strings back by the bridge. I've done a lot of experimenting with this and it's surprising how a small change in the height or width of the foam will have a big effect on the sound.Ultimately the sound is in your hands. Experiment with different attacks with your right hand and different pressure with your left hand. Enjoy the journey.

 

[sawzalot]

A Stingray won't really make that sound. Check out a G&L L-1000 (the "wunkay"). It'll make a sound like that. Or you might just need to play a whole bunch of P-style basses until you find one that you like. I'd seek out the G&L though and give that a shot.