Double Bass Cello tuned to DB-- To those who play the cello

[gypsydjango]

I play DB / Guitar / Bass Guitar--all tuned the same. Also regular 6 string guitar.
I have a 'hankering' to play cello--I love the cello and wished I had played it in my youth, which was many years ago.
My question is: As I know my way around the instruments mentioned above how does the cello sound with DB tuning? Anybody use GDAE tuning on the cello? Does it suit?
Like it?
Your thoughts welcome. Many thanks.

 

[turf3]

Well, you're going to lose a lot of range if you tune a cello in fourths. The double-bass would be tuned in fifths like the rest of the violin family, except for the excessive shifting. The bass guitar, of course, comes from the double-bass. I don't know why the guitar is tuned in (mostly) fourths.

Me, I'd get an instructor and just learn standard cello technique. I doubt that once you get the basics under your fingers, you'll have any issues; very many musicians of my acquaintance play violin or mandolin (tuned in fifths), double bass (tuned in fourths) and guitar (tuned in fourths and a third), with high competence and no indication that they get confused.

 

[Steven Ayres]

Here's a start. Jazz cello, tuned in fourths in the bass register, is a thing:

 

[fu22ba55]

A couple questions:

Can you already sight read on the bass or double bass? If so, then yes I can sorta see the argument for tuning a cello to 4ths, especially as I get older... one less thing to train my stupid old brain to figure out.

If you CANNOT sight read yet, then I would leave the Cello tuned to 5ths so you can take advantage of teachers and methods and the hundreds of years of cello music written for a 5ths-tuned cello. You're gonna have to learn to sight read anyway, so may as well learn to sight-read properly for the cello.

Anybody use GDAE tuning on the cello?

This makes no sense to me. If you want to keep all your bass fingerings & shapes, why would you tune the cello to G 5ths tuning instead of C 5ths tuning? Because you want the same low G as you get on your E string? is that the reasoning? Maybe a case could me made for that.

 

[CatOnTheBass]

Here's a start. Jazz cello, tuned in fourths in the bass register, is a thing:

Got a citation for that? Or a timestamp where we can hear him playing lower than C2? Sure sounds to my ear like Ray Brown's cello is tuned in cello register (an octave up from double bass).

Tuning a cello down to double bass register would mean more than an octave down on the highest strings. You'd need ridiculously thick-gauge strings, (double the thickness of regular cello strings). That's just not what I'm hearing on the Ray Brown recording. It sounds to me like he's using EADG "piccolo bass" tuning (an octave up from double bass standard tuning).

 

[BassFalcon]

A couple questions:

Can you already sight read on the bass or double bass? If so, then yes I can sorta see the argument for tuning a cello to 4ths, especially as I get older... one less thing to train my stupid old brain to figure out.

If you CANNOT sight read yet, then I would leave the Cello tuned to 5ths so you can take advantage of teachers and methods and the hundreds of years of cello music written for a 5ths-tuned cello. You're gonna have to learn to sight read anyway, so may as well learn to sight-read properly for the cello.



This makes no sense to me. If you want to keep all your bass fingerings & shapes, why would you tune the cello to G 5ths tuning instead of C 5ths tuning? Because you want the same low G as you get on your E string? is that the reasoning? Maybe a case could me made for that.

I believe OP just reversed standard convention and named the tuning high to low, instead of low to high as is common among us. I believe the OP meant EADG

 

[fu22ba55]

I believe OP just reversed standard convention and named the tuning high to low, instead of low to high as is common among us. I believe the OP meant EADG

Oof. My bad.

Stupid music theory making upside down 5ths the same as 4ths. (Or upside down 4ths... or... 5ths below... or...)

 

[Steven Ayres]

Got a citation for that? Or a timestamp where we can hear him playing lower than C2? Sure sounds to my ear like Ray Brown's cello is tuned in cello register (an octave up from double bass).

Tuning a cello down to double bass register would mean more than an octave down on the highest strings. You'd need ridiculously thick-gauge strings, (double the thickness of regular cello strings). That's just not what I'm hearing on the Ray Brown recording. It sounds to me like he's using EADG "piccolo bass" tuning (an octave up from double bass standard tuning).

I've studied the recordings closely, and the lowest note I hear is E1. It was built and marketed as a cello-sized bass. I also have one of these and tune it this way, using strings for electric bass, so yes, "ridiculously thick" on the cello scale. But I see it as a different instrument.

 

[CatOnTheBass]

I've studied the recordings closely, and the lowest note I hear is E1. It was built and marketed as a cello-sized bass. I also have one of these and tune it this way, using strings for electric bass, so yes, "ridiculously thick" on the cello scale. But I see it as a different instrument.

Are you sure it's the cello you're hearing play the E1's? Ray Brown is credited "cello and double bass" in the liner notes, and there is also a bassist (Joe Mondragon).

 

[Steven Ayres]

Are you sure it's the cello you're hearing play the E1's? Ray Brown is credited "cello and double bass" in the liner notes, and there is also a bassist (Joe Mondragon).

Yeah, the timbres of the two instruments are easily distinguished.

 

[Francois Blais]

I believe OP just reversed standard convention and named the tuning high to low, instead of low to high as is common among us. I believe the OP meant EADG

G is the first string, down to E, fourth string.
That's how they are numbered by the makers themselves.
EADG is a more common convention, but the true suite would be GDAE I think.

 

[Steven Ayres]

What no one's asked is what's the difference between the classical cello and the jazz cello. That all proceeds from the heavier strings.

Kay based its jazz cellos on its standard 4/4 cello. In the photos you'll notice that the fingerboard is wider than the neck by about a quarter of an inch. This parallels the company's spec for five-string basses. The Kluson machine tuners, optional on other Kay cellos, were also standard spec for these models: for '50-52 the 200A (this one), 200B (Ray Brown's) and 200S, and for '65-67 the down-trimmed B-5. I estimate no more than 100 200s built, against around 300 B-5s.

 

[gypsydjango]

A couple questions:

Can you already sight read on the bass or double bass? If so, then yes I can sorta see the argument for tuning a cello to 4ths, especially as I get older... one less thing to train my stupid old brain to figure out.

If you CANNOT sight read yet, then I would leave the Cello tuned to 5ths so you can take advantage of teachers and methods and the hundreds of years of cello music written for a 5ths-tuned cello. You're gonna have to learn to sight read anyway, so may as well learn to sight-read properly for the cello.



This makes no sense to me. If you want to keep all your bass fingerings & shapes, why would you tune the cello to G 5ths tuning instead of C 5ths tuning? Because you want the same low G as you get on your E string? is that the reasoning? Maybe a case could me made for that.

Thanks for the reply--I wrote GDAE--G being the 1st string---E being the 4th string. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[fdeck]

I played cello from 4th grade through high school, while starting electric bass in middle school for the jazz band, and double bass when I started college. I taught myself electric bass by working through my cello etude books.

Granted, I still had the malleable brain of a kid when I was doing this, but I found that it did not take long to reach the point where I could go back and forth between 5ths and 4ths tuning, including sight-reading. It was like I developed two brains. So it might not be as daunting as it seems.

When the pandemic began, the music scene shut down, and I had a lot of time on my hands, so I decided to see if I could learn to play straight-ahead jazz on the cello. I mean, melodically, not like a bass instrument. My family is into fiddling, and I also got curious about bringing my cello to fiddle jams. So I got out my old student cello after a 40 year hiatus. It's a little harder today, but I think it would be manageable if I got serious about it.

My suggestion would be to give conventional cello tuning a fair chance before reverting to 4ths tuning. I think it's a lot of fun. For one thing, the different tuning deprives me of my familiar bass "licks" so I have to think about melodic soloing at a more basic level rather than just letting the instrument play itself. For another, the range of the cello and the acousto-mechanics of the instrument are evolved to reinforce one another. A cello in cello tuning is actually quite loud, for instance louder than an acoustic bass guitar.

 

[eyvindwa]

There are strings out there specifically for this purpose, so I suppose that means there are a fair number of players doing this: https://www.daddario.com/products/o...ths-tuning-cello-44-scale-medium-tension-set/

FWIW, however, I had the same thought as you, after having a long-time dream of playing the cello. When I eventually got myself one a couple of years back, I ended up sticking with the standard tuning for the cello, though, and I am glad I did. There is a lot of cello repertoire that clearly was written with this in mind, that makes it a lot easier to play than on an instrument tuned in fourths. (If you only want to play original music, or music written for the bass, then just disregard this.)

In any event: the cello is a lot of fun to play - good luck!

 

[fdeck]

Indeed, I discovered you can even play classical music on the cello.

 

[VictorW126]

G is the first string, down to E, fourth string.
That's how they are numbered by the makers themselves.
EADG is a more common convention, but the true suite would be GDAE I think.

Yes. Enumeration from a thin string to a thick string (gdae for DB, ehgdae for guitar, etc.) is a priority tradition in many countries.

 

[Francois Blais]

There are strings out there specifically for this purpose, so I suppose that means there are a fair number of players doing this: Helicore FourthsTuning Cello | Orchestral | D'Addario

This set is probably tuned an octave above the DB range though.

 

[damonsmith]

The Kay 'cellos were an octave up. There are a few albums of bassists playing 'cello in fourths, Percy Heath & Doug Watkins did it. Red Mitchell and Oscar Pettiford left it in fifths, I believe. Could be wrong.
D'Addario makes the strings. I have a cheap 'cello strung up with them. If you play bass guitar & double bass there is not much to learn, you can just play it as is. It is a goofy tradition but it is a real one. I recommend it if it is not going to be a primary instrument and you don't want to play 'cello rep on it.

 

[Steven Ayres]

The Kay 'cellos were an octave up.

I've seen no documentation on how Kay tuned its jazz cellos other than that they were meant to be played as a bass. I studied Ray Brown's recordings and concluded that he used standard bass tuning, not an octave up. The strings were probably by Perfection in Indiana, Kay's regular supplier, and I imagine they were sized for standard tuning, but again I have no documentation. I use electric bass strings on mine.