Cheap Tario fretless nut and relief

[kirkdickinson]

A friend of mine just picked up a cheap 5 string Tario fretless bass. He has a nice Sadowski fretless and used to own a Fodera. He has a vintage handwired Marshall bass rig. Nice gear. I was surprised that he picked up a cheapo. It does look nice at first look. The finish is nice, the neck fits tight in the pocket, the neck isn’t twisted.

He asked me to set it up for him. He says the intonation is bad and he has never done more than set string height.

I have done a lot of quick setups for friends, setting relief, string height and intonation. I usually can make a world of difference in 10 minutes with a badly set up bass.

This one is going to take more than 10 minutes.

The neck has no relief and actually has a slight bit of “reverse relief. The nut is a stock fretted bass nut and is a mile high.

One problem at a time. I took the cover off and loosened the truss rod 1/2 a turn. Nothing! Another 1/2 turn… nothing!

I tuned all the strings up a whole step and the neck is nearly flat there. Might be workable. I decided to leave it at the higher tension for a day to see if it will move.

The second problem is the nut. I have never cut a nut, but wouldn’t be scared to try. I hate to buy a $80 stew Mac set of gauged files that cost half as much as this bass.

I have a big set of drill bits and read about people wrapping the right size bit in sandpaper and recutting a nut that way.

On my Ibanez Portamento, the nut is cut nearly to the fretboard and that works well because the truss rod functions smoothly and I can get exactly the relief that I need.

Not sure on this bass, if I cut the nut down where it should be and can’t get enough relief, then it is futile.

Any recommendations?

This is what he bought. TARIO Fretless 5 String Electric Bass Bolt_On Maple Neck,basswood Body Amazon.com

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I usually set my fretless basses with the neck almost straight. Probably under 0.010” relief. The nut should have the strings just off the fingerboard. Again, around 0.010” should get a clean tone when you want it and a little mwah on the open strings when you pluck harder. If you haven’t set up a fretless nut before you might start at closer to 0.015” and work down to a good number. If the nut slots are genuinely that high and the bottom of the nut is flat you could probably sand or even carefully cut off the bottom of the nut to get closer to the proper height more quickly just don’t over do it. Once you get to where you’re filing I did a lot of bass nuts working carefully with a rat tail file. If you have a letter and number drill bit set use a bit a couple of thousands smaller then the string, wrap sandpaper around it and file with that. Roundwounds can work as a file but I prefer something more rigid as a string can produce a curved bottom slot and you want a flat bottom with the fingerboard edge being the highest point and the slot angling down and, if needed, out towards the tuning key.

 

[kirkdickinson]

I usually set my fretless basses with the neck almost straight. Probably under 0.010” relief. The nut should have the strings just off the fingerboard. Again, around 0.010” should get a clean tone when you want it and a little mwah on the open strings when you pluck harder. If you haven’t set up a fretless nut before you might start at closer to 0.015” and work down to a good number. If the nut slots are genuinely that high and the bottom of the nut is flat you could probably sand or even carefully cut off the bottom of the nut to get closer to the proper height more quickly just don’t over do it. Once you get to where you’re filing I did a lot of bass nuts working carefully with a rat tail file. If you have a letter and number drill bit set use a bit a couple of thousands smaller then the string, wrap sandpaper around it and file with that. Roundwounds can work as a file but I prefer something more rigid as a string can produce a curved bottom slot and you want a flat bottom with the fingerboard edge being the highest point and the slot angling down and, if needed, out towards the tuning key.

Thanks. I have been wanting to learn to cut my own nuts. Should I just bite the bullet and go for something like this stew Mac set?

Gauged Nut Slotting File Set for Bass - StewMac

Produce round-bottom nut slots so your strings seat properly without buzzing!

www.stewmac.com

 

[ardgedee]

Recommendations and alternatives for nut files is discussed often here. Here's a search results page with threads on the topic. Since I haven't had to do any nut adjustments yet I can't make any constructive suggestions myself, other than to say I'd take notes on what non-Stew Mac products had been previously mentioned and see what people think about them.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Thanks. I have been wanting to learn to cut my own nuts. Should I just bite the bullet and go for something like this stew Mac set?

Gauged Nut Slotting File Set for Bass - StewMac

Produce round-bottom nut slots so your strings seat properly without buzzing!

www.stewmac.com

Thanks. I have been wanting to learn to cut my own nuts. Should I just bite the bullet and go for something like this stew Mac set?

Gauged Nut Slotting File Set for Bass - StewMac

Produce round-bottom nut slots so your strings seat properly without buzzing!

www.stewmac.com

Up to you on the files. I haven’t used those specific ones but StewMac tools should be good quality. Their other style with a different gauge on each side of the file are, I think, rebranded Hosco files which may be less expensive under their own brand name. The Music Nomad files are supposed to be good for a lower price but, again, I haven’t used them. I lucked into a pretty complete set of used StewMac files that are Hosco style and just had to purchase two or three new ones for the teeniest guitar strings.

 

[KidAmnesia]

I wouldn't touch the nut until getting the neck into an acceptable relief.
Is it a double or single action truss rod?

 

[kirkdickinson]

I wouldn't touch the nut until getting the neck into an acceptable relief.
Is it a double or single action truss rod?

Agreed.

I don’t know how to tell if is double action. I loosened it almost a whole turn which didn’t change much of anything. It also didnt get slack like the other bass I have that has this problem. That other neck is an all parts neck in my junk pile.

I am wondering if this is a non functioning truss rod?

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Agreed.

I don’t know how to tell if is double action. I loosened it almost a whole turn which didn’t change much of anything. It also didnt get slack like the other bass I have that has this problem. That other neck is an all parts neck in my junk pile.

I am wondering if this is a non functioning truss rod?

That should be easy enough to figure out. Keep loosening the truss rod and the nut will either get loose (ish) and tighten again or unscrew completely. My guess is double action as that seems to be what’s in most import instruments these days.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Instead of buying nut files and deepening the nut slots,why not grind or file down the bottom of the nut?
I've done this in the past.
The result is the same.

 

[J-Bass RMR]

Bad neck on a new(er) bass = no good. (well, any bass for that matter)
I'm not familiar with Tario, but it looks like Amazon is the primary seller.
Is the bass new - still inside the return window?

That's where I'd start...

 

[Reedt2000]

Instead of buying nut files and deepening the nut slots,why not grind or file down the bottom of the nut?
I've done this in the past.
The result is the same.

Yes, this ^

If the slots are spaced right but the nut is too tall then remove it and take material off of the bottom with a file or sandpaper.

 

[2thAche]

No point to working on the nut if you can't get the neck flat. Is it bare wood fingerboard or resin coated?

 

[timendous]

Yeah I'd check the return window. I actually had one of these basses a few months back and mine set up really nicely and played great. I didn't have issues with the nut and the truss worked fine. For being such a cheap bass, I was really happy with it. Sounds like this is a lemon, which is certainly common with these budget brands.

 

[fretlessman71]

Instead of buying nut files and deepening the nut slots,why not grind or file down the bottom of the nut?
I've done this in the past.
The result is the same.

Came down here to say exactly this. And keep loosening that truss rod nut until it's less than finger-tight before you throw that baby out with the bathwater.

 

[kirkdickinson]

Agreed.

I don’t know how to tell if is double action. I loosened it almost a whole turn which didn’t change much of anything. It also didnt get slack like the other bass I have that has this problem. That other neck is an all parts neck in my junk pile.

He

Came down here to say exactly this. And keep loosening that truss rod nut until it's less than finger-tight before you throw that baby out with the bathwater.

I don't like to do large truss rod adjustments all at one time. I will give it 1/2 a turn a day until it gets where it should be.

 

[Five String]

My two Rogue basses have the same back bow problem. You tighten the truss rod and the neck bends backwards. Hard to adjust. Ultimately i had to do a lot of very careful sanding to remediate this. There must be one factory that makes fretless necks for the cheap basses. Maybe something to do with how the pegboard is attached to the neck.

 

[Lo-E]

I agree with the others that you need to get the neck sorted before addressing the nut slots.

If (and only if) you can get the neck straight, I cut my fretless nut slots until the file just scrapes the shiny finish off of a match book cover placed flat on the fingerboard. That equates to about 5 or 6 thousandths of an inch, I think, but the matchbook method has worked for me for 30+ years.

As others pointed out, you can also sand the underside of the nut and, yes, you can use drill bits and sandpaper if you like. It's slow going but it works.