Clueless On Stage

Resonance129

Resonance129

Feb 15, 2011
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#1
I've been playing in a local cover/party band for the last 7-ish months or so. Things are pretty cool - we all get along pretty well and everybody is really good at what they do. The guitarist, drummer, singer, and keys/leader play together and in other projects more often than I'm able to (I got a regular old 9-5), and sometimes play stuff together that I may not have played with them.

The problem here is that sometimes, the BL will call a song on stage during a performance I'm involved in that I've never rehearsed with them, sometimes never even HEARD OF before. This puts me on the spot, big time. Sometimes, I'm able to hear out the chord progressions as we go and can keep up relatively well, but there have been a few times where I was basically clueless, grabbin at straws, hoping the next note was the right one.. And being sorely disappointed...

I get a little frustrated when songs are called out on stage that we've only rehearsed one time 3-4 months prior, but when songs are called out that I've never played with them at all, it's nerve wracking and sets me up to look like the weak link on stage. As we all know, wrong notes and crappy rhythm really throws things off, especially on bass.

I've brought it up to him a few times in the past and, generally, it gets kinda glazed over. I've requested more rehearsals, or longer rehearsals, but nothing changing. Last night, 4 songs in a row were called during a set that I've either never played, or only played once a long time ago. I HATE that clueless feeling and somethings gotta change.

Mind you, I'm not classically trained on bass, and they work with me when it comes to knowing some of the more technical aspects of live performance. And I appreciate that. Do I expect them to hold my hand and walk me through everything? No. But I'm definitely struggling a bit.

Does this sort of thing happen to anybody else? Are we, as bass players, expected to pickup songs we don't know on the fly during a performance? Are my expectations too high?
 
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#3
I agree with @lokikallas .

I've been in situations like that. Not too often thankfully. Still play with one guy who pulls stuff out of the blue. If I don't know it, I smile confidently and stand there as if I'm meant to be sitting this one out. Flubbing is not professional. Sitting a song out, much more professional - IMO.

If I were in your shoes I'd ask for (demand) a list of all song possibilities, and start working on them. I'd also keep my own list of songs they've pulled on my in the past, and make sure I learned them. I'd tell them too that I was going to just sit out songs that I don't know - maybe that would stop them from pulling that garbage?

Regarding songs that you haven't played in months, I'm in a situation now where that happens, and I have to admit I sweat it a bit. My guys take our work a little more seriously than yours though, and if I tell them "NO!!!" they'll cut the song. What I do, which is a lot of work but I feel I gotta do it, is I do my best to review all the songs I'm iffy on before a gig. In my current band that means looking through about 150 song repertoire. I started making myself some cheat notes too, that I take pictures of and keep in my favorites folder on my phone.

I guess I'll just add that I'd also have a talk with them one more time, and find a different way of doing it since the first time didn't work.
 
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#5
I've subbed a couple times in a friend's band with maybe two rehearsals beforehand. So we do the gigs and play reasonably well, but then one of the guitarists will play some lick from a song we've never played, and we all jump in. It's usually a classic rock anthem of some sort, so everyone's heard it but we've never played it. Fortunately, their gigs are at service clubs where everyone's pretty much drunk by the time the music starts, and they have no clue. The audience loves it, and I figure as long as no one's complaining I'll go with the flow.
 
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#8
Resonance129 said:
Does this sort of thing happen to anybody else? Are we, as bass players, expected to pickup songs we don't know on the fly during a performance? Are my expectations too high?
Click to expand...
Depends on your experience ... how much you know about music in general, how many songs you've played over the years. That doesn't apply in your case if you've only been on bass a few months. Yes it happens, especially for guys like me who sub and fill-in often. I was hired by a band a couple of years ago. We "rehearsed" twice for less than an hour (most just learning their heads and tails) and hit the stage, no more rehearsals scheduled. First gig, BL calls songs not on my set list, but I sorta knew them, all was well. Second gig, he calls songs totally out of the wheelhouse of his ostensibly "country and southern rock" genre. Again, I sorta knew them, and leaned over to ask "what that minor is the bridge" (I couldn't recall). He scowled and growled at me "never ask me a question on stage". I've never in more than 50 years encountered that sort of attitude. I was fuming. So I stood there cradling the bass in my arms through the whole set of three songs by Neil Diamond (not his charter toppers, btw), with my back to him, and didn't play a note. We played the rest of the gig (three hours) without incident. I quit that night on the drive home. Life is too short to suffer primadonna attitudes in a weak cover band.

If your BL won't come around to your way of thinking you might have to just "bite the bullet" and find another band who DOES rehearse, and stays with the set list they rehearsed.
 
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#10
oh boy that would be an *almost* automatic deal breaker for me. If it was one time and it was an honest mistake, fine. But the second evening they pull that is my last gig with that band. I'm not going to look like an idiot in front of everyone so you can do a song you enjoy
 
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#11
Yeah, I would be really pissed off, that's pretty disrespectful. If this is something you can tolerate, I think the best option would be to just sit the songs out, as others have said.
This seems like a relatively common thing from what I've read on here, but I really don't get the calling songs thing. I've never been in a straight up cover band, but my originals band does a lot of corporate gigs where we have to play for several hours. In these situations we usually do half originals and half covers. But we always democratically write an ordered setlist for the whole thing so we all know what is coming and when. It seems to me that this whole issue would be solved if you had a setlist and everyone stuck to it, in which case if there are any songs you don't know you could bring it up to the BL before you are on stage. I do understand that your BL/band runs shows a certain way and that is not likely to change though. I think Im just a bit out of the loop in regards to this style of band/show management.
 
#12
Does the BL actually prefer his band to sound like butt when his rhythm section is struggling?

I understand there are bands where everyone is seasoned enough to be able to pull it off, but your band is not one of them. The BL is being an idiot to keep pulling that.
 
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#13
Resonance129 said:
I've been playing in a local cover/party band for the last 7-ish months or so. Things are pretty cool - we all get along pretty well and everybody is really good at what they do. The guitarist, drummer, singer, and keys/leader play together and in other projects more often than I'm able to (I got a regular old 9-5), and sometimes play stuff together that I may not have played with them.

The problem here is that sometimes, the BL will call a song on stage during a performance I'm involved in that I've never rehearsed with them, sometimes never even HEARD OF before. This puts me on the spot, big time. Sometimes, I'm able to hear out the chord progressions as we go and can keep up relatively well, but there have been a few times where I was basically clueless, grabbin at straws, hoping the next note was the right one.. And being sorely disappointed...

I get a little frustrated when songs are called out on stage that we've only rehearsed one time 3-4 months prior, but when songs are called out that I've never played with them at all, it's nerve wracking and sets me up to look like the weak link on stage. As we all know, wrong notes and crappy rhythm really throws things off, especially on bass.

I've brought it up to him a few times in the past and, generally, it gets kinda glazed over. I've requested more rehearsals, or longer rehearsals, but nothing changing. Last night, 4 songs in a row were called during a set that I've either never played, or only played once a long time ago. I HATE that clueless feeling and somethings gotta change.

Mind you, I'm not classically trained on bass, and they work with me when it comes to knowing some of the more technical aspects of live performance. And I appreciate that. Do I expect them to hold my hand and walk me through everything? No. But I'm definitely struggling a bit.

Does this sort of thing happen to anybody else? Are we, as bass players, expected to pickup songs we don't know on the fly during a performance? Are my expectations too high?
Click to expand...

No, expectations are not too high - this is some BS.

It's tough when you play with groups that have several versions of themselves and you are not privy to all of the gigs/ rehearsals. It's understandable that you can't attend everything they do, and it's cool that they are fine with your "part time" role. But they should at least have the courtesy to provide you lists of songs that may come up live. Yeah, it would be better to at least have a run through of everything with them, but at least having worked on the song is better than nothing. It's bad enough experiencing the discomfort of this situation in a jam or rehearsal, but to put a band mate on the spot live like that is just rude.

Sometimes I think that other players assume that bass lines are just really simple and you should be able to just wing it in a lot of cases (in know I leaned this way before I started playing) which is probably why they glaze over your request to be able to be more prepared.

What to do? Tough one. I think just blatantly sitting out is a little weak. Rolling off the volume and pretending to play probably looks better. I think I would be looking to do something that gets their attention - maybe playing a bit too loud while fumbling through trying to figure it out? (Not talking mashing loud, just make it so they can't miss what's happening.)

I'm really amazed that they can tolerate having a bass player fumbling through songs, because that generally leads to a break down of the whole vibe. I'd have to really enjoy their company and be being paid well to continually put up with that situation though. It makes it look like you don't try to show up prepared to someone who is paying attention.
 
#14
This happens, with some BLs more than others. I know how you feel and hate it too. I believe most people do this to a bassist because they are ignorant to the fact that the bass line has to follow the chord structure of the song, or it's not the song they are trying to play. Also, the things we play between the roots, lead the band to the next root. How can you lead if you don't know where your going? The other instruments can get away with not knowing anything about the song, if the bass line is accurate. IMO the mature thing to do is sit out the song. Or, if they are doing this just to make you look bad, turn way up and play something you know. That cures the glazed over look real fast.
 
#15
ReviveBass said:
Roll the volume off, or very low. Paste a big smile on your face, and play* along. At least then your still putting on a solid show and no one hears the clams. And then a serious discussion later when the"why did you drop out on that song" question comes up.
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LOL. This was my first thought, too. Just turn down. I bet no one notices.

Then have a Real Talk after the performance.
 
#17
During a gig the BL has said let's do this song, one that I had not rehearsed properly, I said no I'm not doing it so we didn't. I wouldn't be happy in your situation it's unfair to throw that at you. Suggest you speak to the BL about it and if no joy look for something else.
 
#18
I agree with the first reply above. Just sit it out for that song. You're still getting paid.

The BL needs to be better prepared with the set list, and the rehearsals. Calling out songs in the middle of a set, particularly ones that have never been practiced before is just being unprepared.
 
#19
Resonance129 said:
The problem here is that sometimes, the BL will call a song on stage during a performance I'm involved in that I've never rehearsed with them, sometimes never even HEARD OF before. This puts me on the spot, big time. Sometimes, I'm able to hear out the chord progressions as we go and can keep up relatively well, but there have been a few times where I was basically clueless, grabbin at straws, hoping the next note was the right one.. And being sorely disappointed...
Click to expand...

Resonance129 said:
HATE that clueless feeling and somethings gotta change.
Click to expand...

All this is very bad conduct from the bandleader. Unless the BL takes over the bass and you swap instruments, and lets you off the hook, it's bad conduct. A guitarist, keyeboardist can "tag along" if the song is kind of a ballad or slow. A bassist can never ever take a look at the keyboard, or guitarist and WATCH the chords, and chime in on the SECOND beat. The bassist is the one who always has to take the lead ON BEAT ONE in every measure. I e, a guitarist can take a good look at a bassist fretboard and chime in a chord on the second beat, if he got it by the first beat. Remember, a conductor never waves at the same time as the orchestra, but one BEAT ahead. The bassist should be THE ONE togetheter with the drummer (and not even that most of the time) that has to take the lead.

I have been upon stage a number of times, and they'd yelled it out to me, and most of the times I've HEARD the song so many times, that I don't/didn't have to rehearse it. But if it's a brand new tune with some arrangements, starts and stops, breaks, fills, and a middle eight with awkward chord changes it's a major chore. As a guitarist you can sit out most bars in any tune, but a bass must just chug along like a locomotive. And can't miss a beat. It sounds VERY awkward if the bass always comes in on TWO, after you got which chord it should be. And all the keys, chords on guitars comes in at ONE.

You should suggest trading places at one occasion: YOU call out the tunes, and if they didn't have ever heard it before, just start playing, bass intros that are famous are dime a dozen and chances are that they've not heard them all, and just carry on...

This is bad conduct, and if it's a paying gig with audience, I would split. If I were on stage, I would - instead of turning silent on my instrument - do a total mockup and not even try to play it the right way, but finding out some "artist spirit" and do my own art rock, free form interpretation of it, and when the song is over and they go "what the hell was that?" I would go "it's my interpretation of the song, you guys just don't get it". To really hammer it in, that if this happens again, I will continue. There's no reason for having a band and not everyone in it are comfortable. If the BL thinks it doesn't matter, well then, he'll be better off as a solo singer/songwriter on stage, and do his own thing. Then he can yell out any tune he likes on stage, and no one cares.

You could say to the BL this: He could just as well bring a song of his own that he's just written at home just prior to the gig, that NO ONE has ever heard before. Ask him to provide an answer to that: What's the difference? Between "no one has heard it before" and "I've written this myself". It's the same thing to me.
 
#20
And BTW, if that happens again, if the BL is on some kind of maverick mode always, to STUMP anyone in the band. Hook your laptop up to the WiFI and have it close by, and do look at the song, if he can call it out, it's probably a known song. There's always something on the net, some lyrics and chords you can follow. Sneak it on stage so he don't see it. He will stop yelling out after he finds out that you can nail everything he yells out. The cell phone is too small for this, and you may or may not have time to look it up, but an excuse can be "I must tune up first, hey, there's something with my pedals...". If you run your amp things through software modelling you're "on" the computer anyway.
 
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