Compressor to aid chord work?

Fatz Lewinski

Fatz Lewinski

Oct 25, 2006
15
8
4,551
#1
I play a 6 string and recently started a duo with a singer / saxophonist. I mostly play chords kind of like a jazz guitarist comping (I am sad copy of Todd Johnson!)

I play most chords around or above the 12th fret, mainly on the A - C strings but obviously we are still touching a lot of lower frequencies and the chords can get muddy. Separation (playing 3rds and 7ths far above the root) helps but I was wondering if a compressor would even out the frequencies and stop the low-end muddying things.
Compressors have never appealed to me before but if they can help me here, this may swing me to buying one.
If you think this is going to work, I am open to recommendations; a pedal is preferred but don't really mind if a rack unit is better. However anything over about $300 (new price) would be less than I make out of the gigs so it wouldn't be worth the investment.

If it's relevant, I use a Markbass CMD 121P combo so it would have to work with that.

\ paul
 
#3
smeet said:
A compressor can even out note balance, but I don’t think it will help with muddyness. I think a sweepable HPF like the Broughton would be a better bet.
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Now that's a great idea! Broughton is a new name for me so probably not available in Europe - in fact I can't find a pedal that does similar in the standard EU stores. But it occurs to me that my mixer has a similar feature so I will try that first. Thanks.
 
#5
Fatz Lewinski said:
Now that's a great idea! Broughton is a new name for me so probably not available in Europe - in fact I can't find a pedal that does similar in the standard EU stores. But it occurs to me that my mixer has a similar feature so I will try that first. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I ship to Europe!
 
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#6
smeet said:
A compressor can even out note balance, but I don’t think it will help with muddyness. I think a sweepable HPF like the Broughton would be a better bet.
Click to expand...
I agree
@Fatz Lewinski, I play in a duo and I play chords quite often, just like you
From what I have experienced, anything that kills the lows will work. I did this job with a rat-like distortion with heavy clipping on highs and now with a guitar amp equalized with almost zero lows. So i deduce even a high pass filter should improve the sound of chords
Using strings rich in high harmonics (steel roundwounds) will improve the sound of chords as well
 
#7
oZZma said:
I agree
@Fatz Lewinski, ... I did this job with a rat-like distortion with heavy clipping on highs and now with a guitar amp equalized with almost zero lows.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. You are right about the amp; I already had the lo eq cut a little (about 10 o'clock) and I turned the amp up a notch and rolled off the Lo completely. Much better. I was hoping for a simple solution in a pedal but I guess this is a trial-and-error, less-is-more exercise.

Should I need it: Some time back I bought an EHX Bass BigMuff Delux. Fate only knows why because I have no use for such an effect but it was an Ebay bargain so, you know! However, reading your reply I recall that it has LPF & HPF controls so that may come out of the box again!
 
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#10
I do chords a lot because I'm mostly a solo at home player anymore and I go pretty low.

Good clear sounding pickups not wound too hot, fresh or coated rounds and careful attention to the bass and mids of your eq is all you need.
I'm also a believer in very rigid reinforced necks so the overtones don't get absorbed in the instrument itself.
Compressors are nice if you switch techniques a lot and you need to control the volume of your dynamics but it won't clean up the sludge.
 
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#12
Multi-band compression is what you are looking for. TC Electronics makes one in a pedal, if you have to have it in that form, called the Hypergravity Compressor. To get the most out of it, you can't just drop it on the floor and start twisting knobs. Like most of their Tone Print stuff you need a computer to really get to the good stuff, including high and low pass filters. Best Multiband Compressor Archives - Best Guitar Effects - Reviews of the Best Guitar Pedals & Gear Personally, I would also opt for a more full range system so that my cabinet wasn't just inherently lopping of the top end simply because it's a typical bass guitar speaker.
 
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#13
Are you sure the "muddiness" is not just the fact that at lower frequencies, dissonances in chords are more pronounced. Try playing some maj7b5 chords using the B, E and A string down the nut sometime to hear this.

Chords up near the 12th fret sound like crap on my P basses but sing like angels with my Steinbergers. Compression would not help at all with the Ps. The Bergers have EMGs and you can actually make out the individual notes, that plus great intonation is what makes it work.

On my Bass VI, I can play normal guitar chords (down an octave of course) and they sound pretty awful from down near the nut until I get up the neck into the range of a guitar and then it just sounds like I'm playing a really obese Strat. That's why when you hear guitarists using "baritone" guitars they tend to stay away from chording.

Good luck!
 
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#15
i have a newer Broughton HP/LP filter = a really great tool for many things ..!!!

also have the TC Hypergravity Comp ... the Toneprint software really helps get what you want out of it .!

also have a Source Audio programmable eq ... it's nice to save 4 different eq patches and switch between them ..
 
#16
brianrost said:
Are you sure the "muddiness" is not just the fact that at lower frequencies, dissonances in chords are more pronounced. Try playing some maj7b5 chords using the B, E and A string down the nut sometime to hear this. .... Chords up near the 12th fret sound like crap on my P basses but sing like angels with my Steinbergers. Compression would not help at all ... that plus great intonation is what makes it work.
Click to expand...

Right! Now I've been listening and checking and listening and checking ... 90% of chords I play are above the 12th. fret and always played on a Sei Flamboyant 6 string (lo B - hi C). Chords played across adjacent strings, e.g., root on D string, 3rd on G, 7th on C sound more dissonant than when separation is introduced, e.g., root on A, 7th on G, 3rd on C. The Sei has active Bartolini pick-ups and a Schalk preamp. The bass seems to have a mild intonation problem that I am working on, it's not a neck twist but the instrument is very sensitive to humidity changes and I'm checking the bridge every few days to adjust. Might just be the weather change here in Germany (my Fenders don't seem at all bothered!)

If you're interested, I've also been checking out different amps. I play Steel Guitar and for that I use a DV Mark Little Jazz; for anything (bass, vocals, steel) I have an old but faithful Laney keyboard amp (1x12 coaxial) and most recently (like days ago) I acquired a Phil Jones Double Four which I bought 'cos you can transport it on a bicycle. Here is how they stack up for chord work:
1) Markbass CMD 121P - with the bass rolled off - superb
2) DV Mark Little Jazz - fairly even response (but not enough volume to be useful)
3) Laney Keyboard - pretty impressive, but its getting old and crackly
4) Phil Jones Double 4 - most dissonant and certainly not enough volume. It's quite an impressive amp and the dissonance is not really a surprise given the speaker size but the volume is low and one needs to add tone boost to make it come alive. That just emphasizes the dissonance.

I parked the idea of trying to solve this in a pedal / effect. It was a lazy idea and I'd like to solve it with the minimum components. Thanks to you all for the replies.

\ paul
 
#17
trevcda said:
Multi-band compression is what you are looking for. TC Electronics makes one in a pedal, if you have to have it in that form, called the Hypergravity Compressor. To get the most out of it, you can't just drop it on the floor and start twisting knobs. Like most of their Tone Print stuff you need a computer to really get to the good stuff, including high and low pass filters. Best Multiband Compressor Archives - Best Guitar Effects - Reviews of the Best Guitar Pedals & Gear Personally, I would also opt for a more full range system so that my cabinet wasn't just inherently lopping of the top end simply because it's a typical bass guitar speaker.
Click to expand...

That was my first thought too. Bongomania explains it here:

Dual band compression

The essence of it is that with single band compression, (or even none at all), the lower strings have more energy than the higher strings which overwhelms the higher notes. A true multiband compressor prevents the low end interacting with the high end so much.
 
#18
It's enlightening to listen to jazz guitarists, pianist and organists to hear how dissonances work on different instruments. If I choose to play C, D and E on adjacent keys of a piano to voice a D9, it sounds, um, bad. But it can work if you're Monk or Sun Ra. Try it on a B3 fully cranked and it sounds pretty cool (and it's an easy fingering, too). I don't think it's even possible to play a close voicing like that on any string instrument.

I also hear lots of players leaving notes out of the chords. Some players feel that once you have the 3rd and 7th that the root and fifth are redundant (when played in context). You can hear this sometimes in R&B horn charts. Say you're in the key of C. On the C7 chord, one horn plays E (3rd), the other the Bb (b7) above. For the F7, both horns drop down a half step, the first to Eb (b7) and the other to A (3rd). For the G7 they slide up a half step, the first playing F (b7) and the other a B (3rd). I've also heard it used in vocal harmonies. On bass, this is just a tritone double stop and a cool way to play I, IV and V with a minimum of motion. If you're in a key where an open string works as a chord tone, all the better.

For jazz, playing only the upper notes of extended chords can work, like playing the G-B-D triad over a Cmaj9 chord. This is helpful when you're playing a 4 string rather than a 6.
 
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