Dead frets

[johnny6644]

I've heard lots of players talk about dead frets. And I've heard some say they've never had that problem.

Every bass I've owned has had a dead fret. Warwick Corvette, Geddy Lee, Rockbass Corvette, Carvin, etc.

Usually it's C on the G-string; sometimes it's the C on the D-string. But they all have it.

I've had setups and fret dressing and nothing seems to work.

Tips or cures or advice?

 

[Ric5]

Dead frets are really dead spots. There is nothing wrong with the fret. The bass itself resonates good on some frequencies and poorly on others. Where it resonates poorly you get a dead spot. Many basses have them. It is a design flaw. An accident of nature. The shape of the bass, the type of wood, the mass of the tuners, etc ... all of those factors come together and cause a dead spot.

 

[iiipopes]

It's not the fret. It's the resonance of the instrument at that particular pitch. Almost all Fender basses have the same problem with either C#, D or Eb on the G string. Sometimes a slight tweak to tighten the truss rod will change the tension, and therefore the resonance, to help. Also make sure your neck screws and bridge screws are good and tight.

There is one exception: if the fret is so worn that the string, when fretted, is so low it's actually physically touching the next fret up, physically impeding the string vibration. But that would be rare, and that would entail either a complete fret dress or complete fret job. I had to have the latter done on a @1936 Gibson L-00. A couple of notes had no sustain. The first "luthier" I took it to said too bad. The next, real luthier said the frets were worn and some had been replaced with non-standard frets. He did a complete fret job with original style frets and the instrument played great.

OTOH, my custom P-style bass with fanned frets has a dead C# on the G string, and that's just life.

To minimize this, some makers, like Rickenbacker used to do, Warwick, Conklin, etc., put a strip of contrasting wood down the center to equalize out the resonance. Others, like Steinberger and Moses Graphite, use a material that the resonance is above the bass spectrum. G&L saws their blanks down the center then reglues them to purposefully make a discontinuity that has the same effect as gluing in a center strip. But all instruments have some sort or resonance or the other. The goal of the designer is to place that resonance in the place that has the least effect possible on the instrument.

 

[Supertanker]

Two excellent answers!

Some people add Fat Fingers to their headstock:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--GVTFFB

 

[Gigarob]

If you fret the same note but an octave below this will massively help the problem. On most Fenders the worst dead spot is the B on the G string. If you need to play a sustained B then play it as normal but fret the B on the A string at the same time and watch all your problems disappear.

 

[johnny6644]

THANKS! I appreciate the advice.

I understand the fret/versus "spot" thing, I just couldn't think of another way of describing it. So basically it's something you have to live with; find the note on another string, etc. I tried the Fat Finger thing and I couldn't tell any difference.

 

[adamnitti]

fantastic insight from those that have posted already. and i concur. some of my basses have it bad, some exhibit it a little, and some don't... in my experience so far it seems the only way to get predictability from a neck and its corresponding resonance is to use synthetic materials, such as graphite or rockwood. however, even with a composite neck if the body is made of wood it still has influence on the overall resonance of the instrument and can still positively or negatively affect the sustain with different notes. for those of you currently shopping for a bass, take the time at the music store to literally play and evaluate EVERY note on the instrument (through an amp if possible). that way you will know what to expect in terms of dead notes, etc.

 

[James Judson]

Seems like all Fenders and most others have this problem to some extent. I have learned to avoid the G string on or about the 5th fret. Besides that is into the gui**** range so I stay away from that unless I"m soloing.

 

[Stephen Dodd]

Recently purchased a Fender Custom Shop 51 P Bass from a well known retailer in Canada about 3000 Km away and of course never had the opportunity to play it before buying it. I received it a few days ago and have discovered there is a Dead Fret on it...the D note playing on the 7th fret of the G string. I have owned 3 other Fender Custom Shop Basses and never encountered this issue. Do I assume from what I read on this in these conversations that there is nothing that can be done to correct this and just "Live with It" after paying north of $5,500 ??? Any advice is welcomed. Thanks

 

[sunbeast]

Recently purchased a Fender Custom Shop 51 P Bass from a well known retailer in Canada about 3000 Km away and of course never had the opportunity to play it before buying it. I received it a few days ago and have discovered there is a Dead Fret on it...the D note playing on the 7th fret of the G string. I have owned 3 other Fender Custom Shop Basses and never encountered this issue. Do I assume from what I read on this in these conversations that there is nothing that can be done to correct this and just "Live with It" after paying north of $5,500 ??? Any advice is welcomed. Thanks

Zombie thread!
If the issue is in fact the typical Fender G-string dead fret from neck resonance then the only real permanent fix is to try to shift the resonant frequency by adjusting mass at the headstock. Sometimes lighter or heavier tuning keys will do it, clamping something like a Fatfinger on the headstock can do it (I did this on a vintage G&L L2000 that I played as my main bass for years with a similar dead note to yours), or a more invasive option is to countersink a weight into the headstock under a tuner (a solution TB'er JohnK wrote a thread about years ago where he drilled a hole and added a lead weight in a headstock to fix a dead note after finding the right amount of weight needed). The first thing I'd try in your situation is to just clamp a C-clamp tightly with some weight on the end of the headstock to see if it affects the dead note at all- if so then a final solution may involve playing around a bit with different amounts of weight to try to shift the dead spot in between two notes then deciding how you feel comfortable adding (or subtracting) the amount of weight you need to.

 

[Stephen Dodd]

Sunbeast, thanks for the great information. Since my post I changed strings and put on a set of DR Legends Flats and now getting a close to normal, much fuller sounding note with some sustain.
I will however try the C clamp with some weight and see if it improves any further.

 

[KellyC]

Sunbeast, thanks for the great information. Since my post I changed strings and put on a set of DR Legends Flats and now getting a close to normal, much fuller sounding note with some sustain.
I will however try the C clamp with some weight and see if it improves any further.

Tweaking the truss rod tension can make a big difference as well.

 

[ravlin]

Maybe I'm tone deaf or whatever but I've never had a neck with a dead spot, probably because they're all reinforced or laminated. There is a joke in there somewhere that you paid $5500 for a copy of a 51 p bass, maybe the dead spot is there on purpose to make it "authentic". For real though, if I paid half that for a bass and had any kind of issue I'd be returning it ASAP!

... why are you paying so much for a p bass though? ... to each their own.

 

[sunbeast]

Maybe I'm tone deaf or whatever but I've never had a neck with a dead spot, probably because they're all reinforced or laminated. There is a joke in there somewhere that you paid $5500 for a copy of a 51 p bass, maybe the dead spot is there on purpose to make it "authentic". For real though, if I paid half that for a bass and had any kind of issue I'd be returning it ASAP!

... why are you paying so much for a p bass though? ... to each their own.

I’ve had non-Fender type instruments with noticeable dead-spots too, but the Fender-type design definitely seems to consistently have bad ones- it’s really luck of the draw if your example is gonna have one that sits right on a particular chromatic note or in between notes! Not sure how well graphite reinforcement or laminations eliminate dead spots, but they probably move them around. For example, in the Ibanez EHB thread on here there are a number of folks that have found dead spots on Ibanez EHB basses that all have both laminated and graphite-reinforced necks.

 

[Stephen Dodd]

As for the price, that is Canadian $$ and so there is close to a 30% exchange rate plus I have to pay 13% tax (OUCH!) on top of the price. The net price in US dollars was approx $3,700. As stated earlier, I did change the strings to DR Legend FW, and the fret deadness is all but gone. I must be somewhat lucky because I have a 65 P Bass, a 69 Jazz and a 2010 64 NOS CS Jazz and have never had a dead fret issue.

 

[sunbeast]

As for the price, that is Canadian $$ and so there is close to a 30% exchange rate plus I have to pay 13% tax (OUCH!) on top of the price. The net price in US dollars was approx $3,700. As stated earlier, I did change the strings to DR Legend FW, and the fret deadness is all but gone. I must be somewhat lucky because I have a 65 P Bass, a 69 Jazz and a 2010 64 NOS CS Jazz and have never had a dead fret issue.

If you think about it, the chance of a resonant frequency falling on or very close to the fundamental of a chromatic note in our 12-tone scale is a relatively small chance- the likelihood of it falling between notes is much higher. Not sure exactly how wide of a frequency range a resonant note usually affects, but I’ve played Fenders where it can be relatively minor and then a few basses where it was a big issue (like that G&L I mentioned before, where there was basically no sustain of fundamental at all on one fret- the worst one I’ve ever had!). It happens enough that it if you go through enough Fenders (or Fender-alikes) I’d guess you’ll probably find a bad one at some point! I guess it’s no coincidence that of the 5 or so Fender-type instruments I still own, none of them are ones I’ve owned that had conspicuous dead notes!

I probably would agree that I’d personally not hold onto a bass at that pricepoint that had one. It sounds like it isn’t an issue anymore though, so perhaps either neck shift related to swapping strings helped alleviate it or the issue could have been setup related in the first place

 

[ravlin]

@Stephen Dodd I wonder if the change in strings changes the tension and thus moves the dead spot? In any case, glad you solved the issue simply! Still a spendy P bass but worth it if you're happy! Side note, those are great flats
@sunbeast I guess I should count my stars how lucky I've been. Mostly steel reinforced but graphite on the fancy avatar bass