Disappointed with rig. Should I go Ampless?

Artorias

Artorias

Mar 9, 2017
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28
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#1
Hi all.

I’m currently running a Fender P bass into a pedalboard (tuner, comp, octave, env filter, chorus, delay) then into an Ampeg RB-112 combo. This is after having a couple different Fender Rumble combos, a Darkglass Alpha-Omega 500 into a 2x10, a Quilter Bass Block 800 into a 2x10, etc.

I play at home exclusively now. 75% of the time, I’m playing at fairly low volume in my bedroom (only place I can put my rig is in a corner, but the amp is up off the floor at ear level), the other 25% I’m playing in my daughter’s bedroom while she plays drums (she’s in high school jazz band).

With the exception of the Darkglass rig, my setup is always way too boomy and I’m just disappointed with the tone and how everything interacts. I know the amp being in a corner exacerbates this problem, but it still persists when the amp is on the floor near the middle of a room. I find myself running my bass knob cut down to around 25%. I get the whole adjust with your ears, not your eyes thing.

Am I just over-amped for my situation? Is a better solution to go Ampless (DI/preamp)? If so, how do I monitor what I’m playing (I don’t want to be using headphones 75% of the time and running into a boomy FX return on my combo to play with my daughter on drums)? Is a FRFR/PA a good all-around solution for monitoring and being able to play with a jazz drummer? Studio monitors?

I’m looking at a Darkglass preamp (ADAM or AO Photon) keeping my tuner and delay, or a Line 6 HX Stomp replacing my entire rig.

Any suggestions, insights, experience would be greatly appreciated.
 
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#3
My Darkglass rig was perfect as far as sound, but since I play at home now 100% of the time and need something to keep in my room 75% of the time and put in my daughter’s room the other times, I have moved to combo amps for ease of moving.

That’s why I’m thinking of an easy to transport Ampless setup. I just have zero experience with this. I get the gist of it, but I’m not sure if a FRFR/PA would solve my issue of a kind of all-in-one easy to move, but loud enough to play with a jazz drummer, and good tone/no boominess at lower volumes in my room corner.

Like, would that be a good solution, or do I need to look at higher quality combos? My experience is mostly with entry level/intermediate gear. And I’m mostly coming from 15 years of guitar playing. Only 3 years into bass and it’s been a humbling experience. So much more difficult to get a good tone imho.
 
#4
Artorias said:
...I’m currently running a Fender P bass into a pedalboard (tuner, comp, octave, env filter, chorus, delay) then into an Ampeg RB-112 combo. This is after having a couple different Fender Rumble combos, a Darkglass Alpha-Omega 500 into a 2x10, a Quilter Bass Block 800 into a 2x10, etc...

...With the exception of the Darkglass rig, my setup is always way too boomy...
Click to expand...

bottomzone said:
If your Darkglass rig isn't too boomy and you like the way it sounds then why not stick with it?
Click to expand...

Yeah, if the Darkglass into the 210 (which strikes me as "more amp" than the RB 112 combo, re. your "overamped" question) sounded good (at least not boomy) to you, why not continue with that (if you still have it?

Beyond that, is your daughter playing acoustic or electric drums when you play together? Are you doing anything extreme with the pedals or their settings? How do things sound if you bypass the pedals and run straight into the amp?

Re. boominess and EQ, sometimes the boom is in the bass and sometimes in the low mids - I sometimes find that a small (like 2 or 3 dB) cut there can clear up the rest of the register. If you have access to a semi-parametric or parametric EQ, you can try boosting and sweeping it around to find the offending frequency range, then cutting slightly (or try cutting one band at a time with your amp).

You can try playing with the room placement and distance from walls, elevating the cab (as you have done), something like a Gramma Pad (I find that one helps some in my place), angling the cab up (also helps me at home). Cab choice can make a difference (I usually practice through an Audiokinesis Hathor 1203, which allows you to plug the ports and run it sealed - that's how I prefer to practice at home, as bass response otherwise feels a bit much in my compact space, though the last time I played it out I ran it ported as the bigger bass response filled up the large room we were in better).

An adjustable HPF (like an fDeck HPF3) on your board might help, particularly with effects like octaver and envelope filter.

Some budget sound treatment (a bookshelf) could help...

That's what I've got right now. Good luck!
 
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#5
Artorias said:
My Darkglass rig was perfect as far as sound, but since I play at home now 100% of the time and need something to keep in my room 75% of the time and put in my daughter’s room the other times, I have moved to combo amps for ease of moving.
Click to expand...
Does Darkglass make a 110 to keep in your room? Moving a small head back and forth shouldn't be too hard.
 
#6
They make combos now, but they’re pretty expensive. Haven’t seen any in person anywhere.

my Darkglass rig was great tone wise, but moving a 210 cabinet that weighed close to 50lbs and a head was becoming a hassle.

Idk, maybe I’m looking too deep into it. I’m trying to find an all-in-one solution for an issue caused by room acoustics, find something loud enough to play with an acoustic jazz drum set, not be boomy, and easily moved around.

It’s like that idea that you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Everything is compromising something else.
 
#7
Options:

Going ampless - absolutely possible. I ended up there because I got into pedals, and all my tone comes from those (and my instrument). I plug my pedal board into different options like my studio monitors, powered PA cabs, or a power amp and cabs when gigging. My goal is to monitor myself, not get my 'tone' from what I'm playing through. So I want neutral playback systems.

Studio monitors: these need to stay put so you couldn't shift them from your room to the drum room. You could buy a pair, keep one in each room. However they typically don't take pole mounts to raise them, so you'd need some furniture option like sturdy shelf to raise them to playing height.

PA speakers: you could just buy one and shift it around. Raise it up on a pole mount. You get what you pay for though, especially when you turn them up to drummer volume. Often stores will have sales on single powered speakers when the other from the pair is damaged, so you can get a far better deal on one then a pair.

For both options you'd need an eq pedal to roll off highs and tweak the sound. PA speakers can have hpf lpf eq options within that could do the job too.

Keeping your combo: I think a rehearsal room test would help you decide if this is viable. Book a decent rehearsal room for an afternoon and treat yourself and your daughter to a nice big space to play in. Experiment with your combo placement, and absolutely stand as far from it as possible. The boom and mud might be your proximity to the amp not the amp itself (especially since you've had multiple amps with same issue). 10ft cable to pedal board, 10ft cable to amp gives you lots of space to move around and listen.

The previous suggestion about getting an eq pedal is the first safe expenditure. Start researching those. Preamp pedals with an eq, DI, multiple output options, could also be considered. SushiBoxFX and Broughton have a great range of bass player gear that are well respected on TB. It's a rabbit hole that's fun to dive down.
 
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#8
OnlyFlats said:
Options:

Going ampless - absolutely possible. I ended up there because I got into pedals, and all my tone comes from those (and my instrument). I plug my pedal board into different options like my studio monitors, powered PA cabs, or a power amp and cabs when gigging. My goal is to monitor myself, not get my 'tone' from what I'm playing through. So I want neutral playback systems.

Studio monitors: these need to stay put so you couldn't shift them from your room to the drum room. You could buy a pair, keep one in each room. However they typically don't take pole mounts to raise them, so you'd need some furniture option like sturdy shelf to raise them to playing height.

PA speakers: you could just buy one and shift it around. Raise it up on a pole mount. You get what you pay for though, especially when you turn them up to drummer volume. Often stores will have sales on single powered speakers when the other from the pair is damaged, so you can get a far better deal on one then a pair.

For both options you'd need an eq pedal to roll off highs and tweak the sound. PA speakers can have hpf lpf eq options within that could do the job too.

Keeping your combo: I think a rehearsal room test would help you decide if this is viable. Book a decent rehearsal room for an afternoon and treat yourself and your daughter to a nice big space to play in. Experiment with your combo placement, and absolutely stand as far from it as possible. The boom and mud might be your proximity to the amp not the amp itself (especially since you've had multiple amps with same issue). 10ft cable to pedal board, 10ft cable to amp gives you lots of space to move around and listen.

The previous suggestion about getting an eq pedal is the first safe expenditure. Start researching those. Preamp pedals with an eq, DI, multiple output options, could also be considered. SushiBoxFX and Broughton have a great range of bass player gear that are well respected on TB. It's a rabbit hole that's fun to dive down.
Click to expand...
Fantastic information! Thank you for the alternative perspective on where I could be finding the tone part of the equation.

That makes me think maybe as you said my proximity to the amp could be part of the issue. My master bedroom where I do most of my playing is about 25’x 20’ and my rig is relegated to a corner (gotta love being married and having a house full of kids). I’m typically sitting no more than 3-4 feet away from it on a stool when playing by myself.

My daughter’s room is small… maybe 12’x11’ and has an acoustic drum set in a corner. I’m also sitting maybe 3-4 feet from the amp in this scenario as well.

Maybe I’m using the wrong tool for the job in that a 12” combo or 2x10 cab are just moving way too much air for the space I’m in and how close I am to the amp.
 
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#12
Just reread the 15 years of guitar and now 3 years of bass. Is the P bass the only one in your arsenal? Cuz it sounds just like me when I started playing. All I had was a P bass and no matter what I did I hated the one single garbage tone I could get from it. After playing with some friends who had jazz basses and soundgears and Spectors etc I realized no amount of amps and pedals will ever make a P bass sound like anything else but a P bass, which to me is boomy and bass heavy. That was around 16 years ago, and in the past 16 years I don’t think I’ve touched a P bass once and actually enjoyed playing it or the tone I got from one. Try some different basses before you give up on amps.
 
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#13
21DaHoagie12 said:
It’s simple, you’re playing a P bass. The king of muddy boomy tone.
Click to expand...
With flats too!!!

Jokes aside, it really is an out of control boominess, not just a lot of low mids. I get that a p bass is gonna have that tone, but I feel like the amps are just excessively boomy if that makes any sense. Was the same with my Ibanez EHB with Aguilar DCB pickups. A bit more controllable, but still boomy in a non-satisfying way.
 
#14
OnlyFlats said:
Options:

Going ampless - absolutely possible. I ended up there because I got into pedals, and all my tone comes from those (and my instrument). I plug my pedal board into different options like my studio monitors, powered PA cabs, or a power amp and cabs when gigging. My goal is to monitor myself, not get my 'tone' from what I'm playing through. So I want neutral playback systems.

Studio monitors: these need to stay put so you couldn't shift them from your room to the drum room. You could buy a pair, keep one in each room. However they typically don't take pole mounts to raise them, so you'd need some furniture option like sturdy shelf to raise them to playing height.

PA speakers: you could just buy one and shift it around. Raise it up on a pole mount. You get what you pay for though, especially when you turn them up to drummer volume. Often stores will have sales on single powered speakers when the other from the pair is damaged, so you can get a far better deal on one then a pair.

For both options you'd need an eq pedal to roll off highs and tweak the sound. PA speakers can have hpf lpf eq options within that could do the job too.

Keeping your combo: I think a rehearsal room test would help you decide if this is viable. Book a decent rehearsal room for an afternoon and treat yourself and your daughter to a nice big space to play in. Experiment with your combo placement, and absolutely stand as far from it as possible. The boom and mud might be your proximity to the amp not the amp itself (especially since you've had multiple amps with same issue). 10ft cable to pedal board, 10ft cable to amp gives you lots of space to move around and listen.

The previous suggestion about getting an eq pedal is the first safe expenditure. Start researching those. Preamp pedals with an eq, DI, multiple output options, could also be considered. SushiBoxFX and Broughton have a great range of bass player gear that are well respected on TB. It's a rabbit hole that's fun to dive down.
Click to expand...
there’s gold in this post :)
 
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#15
I think the speakers in the RB series amps are somehow designed to be boomy. When i connect a great cab to the external speaker jack it sounds great. If I use my HPF (Fdeck) set at about 100hz, I can get better tone out of the amp. I can actually turn up the bass knob for clarity. Try one.
 
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#16
It sounds like you’ve got a couple things going on. As far portability goes I’d go with a cabinet in each room where you play and a head or pedalboard or whatever that you can move back and forth. That would apply whether you use a regular amp and cab or something like powered monitors or PA speakers.

For your boominess issue: there’s nothing wrong with adjusting your EQ to fit the space where you’re playing. Most amps are designed to fill a bigger space (or even the great outdoors) with low frequencies, so it’s not surprising that they would be bass heavy in a small space if you just set the EQ flat. But think a couple earlier posts have touched on a couple important points: first, when adjusting the EQ be sure you’re affecting the right frequencies. Boom lives more in the low mids than the bass range. You’d probably want an amp with a specific low mid tone control, or a parametric mid that lets you go after a very specific range. You may only need to notch one specific frequency that resonates in your room.

Having said that, though, there’s also a valid point about your use of a P-bass. The glory of the P-bass is its low-mid presence, which IMO is what gives it its reputation for sitting so well in a mix. But in your specific application that might be exacerbating your problem. An easy way to deal with too much boom would be to switch to the bridge pickup, except that bass doesn’t have one. While I think it should be possible to dial in a good tone with the P, it’s something to think about.

Finally, I think it’s worth giving some consideration to versatility and what the future may hold. If you go completely ampless then if some day an opportunity comes up where you might want to play you might not be able to. But meanwhile, there’s been mention of PA gear here, and it’s always handy to own a PA. You don’t say how old your daughter is but if she might be joining or forming bands with her friends someday then having a PA, even a small practice-level PA, could be a huge advantage.

So my thoughts, based just on your limited information here is, have an amp with good low mid EQ shaping that you keep for your own room, and get PA gear for your daughter and play through that when you’re jamming with her. If you have access to a bass with a different pickup configuration than might be an interesting experiment but I’d spend my money on the other stuff first.
 
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#18
jthisdell said:
What is the 210? Your cab is responsible for most of your tone. Also, an hpf is always useful
Click to expand...
I started off with a Hartke Kickback 112 which I found pretty decent. Not overly boomy and pretty loud and clean, but it was just so…. Neutral sounding for lack of a better word. It was just blah, no real character or tone I could describe, sterile.

I went to a Fender Rumble 40 (10” speaker). Was pretty good as well. Much more character, but I was maxing it out playing with my daughter on drums. I stayed clean though, even almost maxed on volume. Built in overdrive was complete trash imo. Sounded very warm and dark, almost like they were going for a vintage tube sort of sound.

Ended up going to the other extreme. Bought a Quilter Bass Block 800 and was running it through a cheap Peavey Headliner 210. Stayed perfectly clean and got way loud, but the Peavey cab was definitely a weak link. Overly dark and muddy sounding. The Quilter kind of had that no character thing going on too. Not sure if they’re meant to be used as a stand alone amp or if they’re meant to be a power amp with some minor room correcting EQ for a preamp.

I then went to a Darkglass Alpha Omega 500 head into a 2x8 cabinet. That was my favorite tone out of everything I’d used. Very nice modern cleans with lots of control over the mid frequencies. No harsh top end and a very nice tamed low end. Not boomy at all. However, it was just too much of a hassle to move around.

finally, I’m at my Ampeg RB-112. Lots of volume for what it is. Mids and highs are nice. Limited EQ and a bit of a vintage tube style sound going on. The SVT style overdrive circuit is nice, gets really grisly. Waaaaaaaaaay too much low end. Extremely boomy and very difficult to EQ the boominess out. It’s like I cut the bass to a point and the boominess is 80% taken care of, then move the knob a hair’s width lower and I don’t have satisfying low end presence anymore. I use that setting with the low boost button pushed in and I’m like 90% there. I think I’d like it more if I was playing much further away from the amp and in a much larger space. I’m sure my amps being in a corner doesn’t help either.
 
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