Does Fret size matter?

madjazzbass

madjazzbass

Jan 5, 2014
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#1
I'm well aware that all of the parts on a particular Bass has an impact on it's tone; I've been "tinkering" around with "upgrades" and builds for quite some time now BUT, I gotta ask: Does the size of the frets in ANY way affect the actual tone of a Bass, or is fret size just a matter of feel/comfort? Thanks. ... sorry if it sounds like a "newbie" question. :D
 
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#2
madjazzbass said:
I'm well aware that all of the parts on a particular Bass has an impact on it's tone; I've been "tinkering" around with "upgrades" and builds for quite some time now BUT, I gotta ask: Does the size of the frets in ANY way affect the actual tone of a Bass, or is fret size just a matter of feel/comfort? Thanks. ... sorry if it sounds like a "newbie" question. :D
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I'm of the opinion that fret size only affects tone when they're so small that you can't feel them at all.
 
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#3
David Jayne said:
I'm of the opinion that fret size only affects tone when they're so small that you can't feel them at all.
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Thanks; I was thinking sorta the same thing (but of course I'm not exactly sure of it) 'cause the one Bass that I have with the smallest and shortest frets SEEMS to not sound as ... ? rich - it doesn't have the same "depth" as any of my other (7) Basses; (if that makes any sense at all), I just found that rather ... odd, so I had to ask, Thanks again.
 
#4
I never got the concept behind tiny frets. Some people claim they are more accurate intonation, which makes no sense. A properly crowned fret leaves a knife edge line that actually contacts the string, that's true regardless of fret width or height, so fret size is irrelevant to intonation. People say it feels like a fretless when you use mandolin frets, which I can maybe buy, less surface area contact for your fingers. Seems like they'd wear faster too, but maybe not with stainless. Meh. I like em' wide and high, medium jumbo. Easier to bend strings on, which I do a lot. Leland Sklar likes them, and he's no slouch, but I can't think of another high-profile player who does.
 
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#5
It can matter. Some people claim large frets help contribute to sustain. But if the fret is too tall, and the player's technique is too heavy, the player can pull the string sharp if the string is pulled down to the fret board, not just to the fret. For small frets, no less a player than Leland Sklar has advocated mandolin frets for more precision in intonation and a woodier tone. Like everything else, for most players, moderate frets do the job well. This thread is not the first discussion on this topic.
Alembic Club: Fret Option
 
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#6
madjazzbass said:
Thanks; I was thinking sorta the same thing (but of course I'm not exactly sure of it) 'cause the one Bass that I have with the smallest and shortest frets SEEMS to not sound as ... ? rich - it doesn't have the same "depth" as any of my other (7) Basses; (if that makes any sense at all), I just found that rather ... odd, so I had to ask, Thanks again.
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I was kidding. In my example I'm talking about a fretless. : D
 
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#7
Gilmourisgod said:
I never got the concept behind tiny frets. Some people claim they are more accurate intonation, which makes no sense. A properly crowned fret leaves a knife edge line that actually contacts the string, that's true regardless of fret width or height, so fret size is irrelevant to intonation. People say it feels like a fretless when you use mandolin frets, which I can maybe buy, less surface area contact for your fingers. Seems like they'd wear faster too, but maybe not with stainless. Meh. I like em' wide and high, medium jumbo. Easier to bend strings on, which I do a lot. Leland Sklar likes them, and he's no slouch, but I can't think of another high-profile player who does.
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There may be SOMETHING to it. It's not a knife edge after all, it's a radius. If you exaggerate the radius to say, 1/2" it becomes obvious that where and how hard you fret matters more than if the radius is small. AND up high on the neck is where it matters most, because the higher you go the more the distances matter with respect to intonation. So, maybe. I'm not gonna sweat it but, maybe.
 
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#9
Anything with "Tone" in it tends to veer off into opinion and the like.

IMHO it's just "what you like" assuming they are installed correctly and you don't get crazy with grabbing too hard on large frets and going sharp. i.e. fret to the point of fretting, not "clench and string must touch the board" might matter a bit more with larger frets than smaller ones. But I mostly play the fretless acoustic thing, so what do I know...
 
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#11
Imho, definitely. I prefer the vintage (mandolin) frets on older p basses to any other fret size. To my ears it sounds like wood rather than steel, if that makes sense. There is absolutely no fret noise, which i like alot. My 69 p bass has medium frets, and there is always some metallic bite from the frets, regardless of fret dressing or setup. I can surely see one would actually prefer this sound over the woodier sound as well though.
 
#12
Long answer:

A lot of folks have made a lot of hay about high mass bridges - how they affect sustain. Well, a string has two ends, and adding metal mass to the one with a tiny amount of metal anchoring it makes a much bigger difference in sustain and sound than adding more metal to the one that already has a decent amount of metal.

The amount of fret material affects the end condition of that end of the string - it affects how the string vibrates. A smaller fret not only has metal mass there, it means the vibrational forces into the wood are distributed across less surface area, so the wood appears "softer" to the string. Think of walking on snow in snow shoes or high heels (I've done the first, the second is a thought experiment) - the less the surface area, the more you sink in - the ground appears "softer" as a result. A similar thing happens with frets.


I've done neck swaps where the only variable between necks was fret size - the neck and fretboard materials were the same otherwise, and yes, smaller frets are less "clanky", and more "woody" sounding - it is a real, if somewhat subtle effect. I have a bass I'm rebuilding - it was too bright and clanky. There are several things I'm changing to "unclank" it, but yes, smaller frets are part of the recipe I'm using - I have a neck on order with smaller frets as part of that rebuild.

Short answer: Yes.
 
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#13
madjazzbass said:
I'm well aware that all of the parts on a particular Bass has an impact on it's tone; I've been "tinkering" around with "upgrades" and builds for quite some time now BUT, I gotta ask: Does the size of the frets in ANY way affect the actual tone of a Bass, or is fret size just a matter of feel/comfort? Thanks. ... sorry if it sounds like a "newbie" question. :D
Click to expand...
The older, softer frets used by Fender on early the vintage basses sounded great but wore out quickly. Mike Lull RIP used to source that softer wire for those who needed it. Mike and I talked about it at length. He said installing it was no problem, but expect less wear resistance. Most use Jescar brand wire these days as it's hard and sounds good. I really like Jescar 6105 or 6150 size wire.
 
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#14
David Jayne said:
There may be SOMETHING to it. It's not a knife edge after all, it's a radius. If you exaggerate the radius to say, 1/2" it becomes obvious that where and how hard you fret matters more than if the radius is small. AND up high on the neck is where it matters most, because the higher you go the more the distances matter with respect to intonation. So, maybe. I'm not gonna sweat it but, maybe.
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We are talking differences measured in .001"s, if you can hear variation in intonation over that distance, you have better ears than me! :D You might see it on Peterson Strobe, but I really doubt it. Mandolin frets are tiny for a reason, so you can fit your fingertips between them in the high registers. If it works for somebody, it's all good.
 
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#16
micguy said:
Long answer:

A lot of folks have made a lot of hay about high mass bridges - how they affect sustain. Well, a string has two ends, and adding metal mass to the one with a tiny amount of metal anchoring it makes a much bigger difference i sustain and sound than adding more metal to the one that already has a decent amount of metal.

The amount of fret material affects the end condition of that end of the string - it affects how the string vibrates. A smaller fret not only has metal mass there, it means the vibrational forces into the wood are distributed across less surface area, so the wood appears "softer" to the string. Think of walking on snow in snow shoes or high heels (I've done the first, the second is a thought experiment) - the less the surface area, the more you sink in - the ground appears "softer" as a result. A similar thing happens with frets.


I've done neck swaps where the only variable between necks was fret size - the neck and fretboard materials were the same otherwise, and yes, smaller frets are less "clanky", and more "woody" sounding - it is a real, if somewhat subtle effect. I have a bass I'm rebuilding - it was too bright and clanky. There are several things I'm changing to "unclank" it, but yes, smaller frets are part of the recipe I'm using - I have a neck on order with smaller frets as part of that rebuild.

Short answer: Yes.
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I don't believe you at all. Er...I mean the part about you never having worn high heels in deep snow. :smug:
 
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#18
Gilmourisgod said:
I never got the concept behind tiny frets. Some people claim they are more accurate intonation, which makes no sense. A properly crowned fret leaves a knife edge line that actually contacts the string, that's true regardless of fret width or height, so fret size is irrelevant to intonation. People say it feels like a fretless when you use mandolin frets, which I can maybe buy, less surface area contact for your fingers. Seems like they'd wear faster too, but maybe not with stainless. Meh. I like em' wide and high, medium jumbo. Easier to bend strings on, which I do a lot. Leland Sklar likes them, and he's no slouch, but I can't think of another high-profile player who does.
Click to expand...
When you deform the string by fretting you add tension to the string which changes the pitch. Because of that a guitar like instrument with frets will never have perfect intonation.

If you have a fret and are fretting right on the fret there will be little difference between a large fret and a small fret.

If you fret in the middle between frets and push the string to the fretboard: a large fret will allow more string deformation and pitch shift. So if you fret on the fret it will sound different than if you fret in between the frets.

My ear generally isn't good enough to hear a difference.
 
#19
Slidlow said:
Only if the frets are different heights.
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Say the string is 2mm above the 12th fret on two bass guitar necks.

On one neck the frets are all 1mm thick. When you push the fret to the fret the string bends 2mm. When you push the string in between frets it bends 3mm.

On another neck the frets are 0.25mm thick. If you push on the fret, the string deforms 2mm still. In between the frets it bends 2.25mm.

Fretting between the frets will have a different pitch on both than fretting right on the fret, but the smaller fret will not be nearly as off as the first neck. Hence, smaller frets intonate better.
 
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