Double Bass Dynamic Mic for Upright?

SeayBass

SeayBass

Supporting Member
Jan 29, 2006
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Washington DC Baltimore VA MD
#1
Hi all
I'm getting back into the microphone thing after years of not doing that. I've done some at home testing and recording of a few mics, and worked on tailpiece mounting. I've gotten to the point where I am ready to do some buy-try-return at guitar center even. I want what we all want- a clean dynamic mic that transduces the bass into a signal that I can easily use on a bass amp without feedback or bleed. And preferably without the need to add extra stuff into the signal chain. If it's crazy loud I can use a pickup...

I have made a long and short list of mics I'd like to hear, but I'm also curious what others here have used and liked. I could type a lot more, but am more interested in hearing from you. The goal is to use dynamic mic live with drums or large ensemble if possible. From jazz to pit orchestra to full band concert. Don't feel like you have to respond to the listed mics. I'm more interested to know what works for you, my fellow bassists.

Mics I have tried
Heil PR40
Heil PR31
Lewitt DTP 340tt

Mics I like on paper and from the kick drum review recordinghacks.com
AT ATM25
EV N/D868 (haven't hear the newer version, ND68)
Audix D4
plus several more I like on paper
Heil pr30
Heil PR28
beyerdynamic M88

There are a number of other good mics that are too heavy for my mic mount, like the Telefunken M82 or Heil PR48, and others, so if they weigh 14+ oz. they're out.

As you can see, I like Heil mics, but not married to them. The Lewitt 340 is what I'm using right now because it works well, especially in feedback and bleed. But larger diaphragm mics are preferred.
 
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#2
I use a Sennheiser e604 mounted to my tailpiece for volume-sensitive, mostly mic'ed acoustic ensemble playing. It mounts relatively easily to standard DB tailpieces using the included swivel and the included bolt through a string hole; on my custom tailpiece it is mounted about an inch from the top table, pointing at an angle at the bridge feet, and it produces very nice natural tone. It serves nicely as a clear feed to either my amp or to an FOH, and I've been on stage with it frequently. I've got a wind muff on it, mostly to protect it from weather at this time, but could probably just as well use it without. Again, this is at sensitive volumes, and I've never had any feedback problems with it.



(For playing louder with -- or against -- seriuosly amped instruments I use a Vic's Model C bridge wing and fingerboard pickup set, fed through a mounted K&K Dual Channel Pro ST, and out to my amp or to an FOH.)
 
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#4
I'll start by saying there are very few circumstances where I would consider using a mic live. It's not something I would ever try to run through my amp. But in some circumstances, it can be useful for the PA.

I have not personally tried these mics on upright, even though I have used many of them on other sources.

I have seen suggestions for the Sennheiser E609. This is a relatively small side address mic. Per the response plot it has more LF extension than the E906.

You might also consider the Audix D4. This is another rather small mic. The older US made version have flatter frequency response. D4s made after 2011 have a bit of a mid scoop.

Another mic you could consider is the Beyerdynamic M201TG. This is a pencil style mic.

I believe AT has made some pencil style dynamics as well, but I am not familiar with them.

Also if you want a big, but really fabulous dynamic, consider the Sennheiser MD441.

I would suggest you consider ribbon mics as well. For example, take a look at the Troll, which is designed specifically for bass.

Good Luck!
 
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#5
What is your mic to bass amp signal chain? Are you using a micpre and feeding a 1/4" to the bass amp or going straight in? Also, generally speaking are the mics facing upward or toward the bass body? Thanks.
 
#6
I don't use a dynamic mic, but a condenser:

bassball-audix2.jpg


Audix ADX-20iP. I've used it live on several occasions, and it works like a charm with the foam ball attachment. I was against any "permanent" addition to the bass like mounted pickups or piezos, and this was right up my alley. However, the bands I play in have a low stage volume and use in-ear monitoring, so that's where I feel mics really shine.
 
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#7
I don't think there's any single best microphone, and I don't think that the mic model is as important as mic placement.

For loud music (as you wrote), the best mic is no mic at all, but a pickup. Sure, if you have a PA with a sound guy, you may want your bass miked, but only through the PA, not through your bass amp.

If ambient sound levels are low,
a) I find an omnidirectional like the ElectroVoice RE55 to provide the most natural and uncolored response; and because of the omni pattern, placement is not so critical, and you can get the mic very close to the bass because there is no proximity effect. You can simply stuff the mic under the tailpiece if you wish - something that bassists have been doing for decades.
b) A directional mic on a stand, at some distance from the bass; but you say you want to mount the mic.

For a mounted mic, it's pretty important to have some capable EQ. For a mounted directional mic, even more so. Moreover, size and weight are significant factors. My choice would be a lavalier condenser mic, but you want a dynamic, so ... here are a couple of my choices:

ElectroVoice N/D 468

iu


Agreeing with @Wasnex , the Beyerdynamic M201:

upload_2022-7-8_10-40-5.png
 
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#10
AGCurry said:
Why?
Click to expand...

In general- in my limited experience with mics, live and recorded-
on a bass the smaller diagram mics sound more focused on one little spot to me, and the larger diaphragms have a larger lens for more panorama. But if course it's impossible to get a panorama with just one microphone sitting 2" off the bass.
...
It sounds like you have more experience than I- which is why I asked you all. I'll check out your recommendations.

Thanks bass dudes!
 
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#14
For a live situation, SM57 or 58. I think alot of the mics you are listing are likely great for recording, but mics great for recording in detail aren't necessarily what you want for live, and especially not plugged into a bass amp.

Regardless of the mic you choose, using a bass amp is going to be your limiting factor. In general, mic signals don't play well with most bass amps. Instead i'd recommend you try putting a powered PA speaker on a pole mount. It will not only allow you and your stagemates to hear the bass loud and clear, but provides isolation away from the mic since the speaker is hitting at or above head level.
 
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#15
Wasnex said:
That should be more of a function of the polar pattern and distance between the mic and source, rather than the size of the diaphragm.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to do some more listening. It's just sinking in. What I associated with small diaphragms may well be the small polar pattern I'm hearing.
So I'll have to collect at least four microphones -
one small hyper one small cardioid one large hyper one large cardioid; preferably of similar make and design...
and do a fun listening experiment. One of these days I'm going to get an engineer or two, a few bass players, some speakers some amps, some recording gear and just go to town with as many microphones as we can find.
 
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#16
SeayBass said:
So I'll have to collect at least four microphones -
one small hyper one small cardioid one large hyper one large cardioid; preferably of similar make and design...
and do a fun listening experiment. One of these days I'm going to get an engineer or two, a few bass players, some speakers some amps, some recording gear and just go to town with as many microphones as we can find.
Click to expand...

Sounds like it could be fun, but I think there are too many variables in your "listening tests" to form conclusions.
 
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#17
Small diaphragm mics don’t have a figure of eight, very few large diaphragm mics have super- or hypercardioid characteristics.

There are some small diaphragm mics that can change the capsule to get a different characteristic, large diaphragm mics (with two membranes) can switch the characteristic electronically. But this is typically valid for condensers, not dynamic mics.

The main reason for the large diaphragm originally was a better signal to noise ratio, so less noise. But the smaller the membrane, the less distortion from the membrane from getting the air pressure delayed at different parts of the membrane or by vibrating with knots.
So the smaller membrane gives a better pure representation of the sound. If this is desired soundwise is a different question.
 
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#18
So my Shure Beta 27 large diaphragm condenser gave in. It suffered rain in an intermission, and the stand was also knocked over once.
It was sold out in my local Thomann shop, so I discovered and bought a new, improved entry level LDC called Shure PGA27. The point is, I again got confirmed, that the LDC to me is superior to dynamic microphones. More highs, deeper lows, more realistical/present. This is compared to Shure SM Beta 57 and 58's, in the same position in front of the bass.
I suspect it is mainly because of the higher weight/inertia of the dynamic magnet/coil system, compared to a micron thin transducer in a condenser system. But ofcourse it is less rugged, and more complicated with phantom power required etc...
 
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#19
Povl Carstensen said:
...I discovered and bought a new, improved entry level LDC called Shure PGA27. The point is, I again got confirmed, that the LDC to me is superior to dynamic microphones. More highs, deeper lows, more realistical/present. This is compared to Shure SM Beta 57 and 58's, in the same position in front of the bass.
Click to expand...

All that this comparison proves is that you like the Shure PGA27 more than the Beta 57 and 58 - not that "the LDC is superior to dynamic microphones."
 
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