E-A side Jazz pu poles react (buzz) when touched (~?~)

JIO

JIO

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#1
What would cause only the E-A side of (both) Jazz pu's poles to buzz when touched? No other ground issues - from touching bridge or tuners. Details - the pu's are Fender Super 55's (split-pole) and it's strung w/Rotosound tape wounds. Cavities are fully shielded and star-grounding incorporated. Everything sounds great and it's quiet at full treble. Only touching the E-A side poles of both pu's causes this issue.
 
#3
line6man said:
If the pole pieces are not grounded properly, and the DG coil is on the ground side, then the EA coil is closer to the hot. Hence, buzzing when you touch the pole pieces. If you want to fix the issue, then ground the pole pieces.
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These pu's come with plug-in wire connectors. (at the base of each pu) The 3 prong connecter can be plugged in either way as it's symmetric. I have them both the same way - is it possible they should be reversed?
 
#6
line6man said:
That's irrelevant to the issue that I described, but it wouldn't hurt to experiment.
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As far as what you described, I am not clear on "ground the pole pieces" - how exactly does one ground specific pole pieces? I have not encounterd this specific issue over many pu/electronics installations and so don't understand how or why very specific pu poles are not grounded or how to ground them.
 
#7
JIO said:
As far as what you described, I am not clear on "ground the pole pieces" - how exactly does one ground specific pole pieces? I have not encounterd this specific issue over many pu/electronics installations and so don't understand how or why very specific pu poles are not grounded or how to ground them.
Click to expand...

It is very very common for Fender style pickups to not be grounded, allowing them to buzz when touched. The only thing special about your case is that you have a split coil pickup, so some of the poles are closer to the ground potential, and thus, quieter than the other poles. It's a simple and common problem, so don't overthink it. There are actually two solutions. One is to ground your pole pieces. This is typically done by laying copper tape with conductive adhesive, over the back of the pickup, across each pole piece. The other solution is to put some nailpolish or some other insulating finish over the pole pieces, so that their surfaces will not be conductive when you touch them.
 
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#8
line6man said:
It is very very common for Fender style pickups to not be grounded, allowing them to buzz when touched. The only thing special about your case is that you have a split coil pickup, so some of the poles are closer to the ground potential, and thus, quieter than the other poles. It's a simple and common problem, so don't overthink it. There are actually two solutions. One is to ground your pole pieces. This is typically done by laying copper tape with conductive adhesive, over the back of the pickup, across each pole piece. The other solution is to put some nailpolish or some other insulating finish over the pole pieces, so that their surfaces will not be conductive when you touch them.
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The back of the pu's don't offer exposed poles, so the copper tape solution wasn't an option - so I just coated the 8 pole tops with clear nail polish and will check them in the morning. Thanks for your insights and advice.
 
#9
is it possible they should be reversed?
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If this reverses the phase of the pickups, then actually this may well help. If the inner windings of a coil is at earth, then the exposed poles won't buzz when touched. And there's a chance that right now the inner windings of that buzzy coil are either hot or halfway. If hot, then reversing the phase (you'll have to do both pickups) will put the inner windings to earth instead, and give you a quiet pickup coil. However, this will mean the other side will buzz now.

Your side-by-side J humbuckers are essentially skinny, in-line P pickups. And this problem happens with P basses all the time. (It comes up on this forum once a month I'd say. I'd rather not smear nail polish all over my early 70's P's pickup, so I have reversed its phase so one coil is quiet and the other buzzes just a little (its inner windings are halfway). Then I've moved the pickup so the buzzy coil is under the d/g where I never touch it with my playing style.

The other option is to run the pickups in parallel mode. (If possible). If they are are RPRW then you should be able to have all four coils in phase and with inner windings at earth. This however will brighten the tone of the pickups and also drop their output.

Reguardless, the poles shouldn't buzz if your fingers are earthed through the bridge/string earth wire. However if you run tape-wounds or elixyr-type coated strings, then the string earth does very little.
 
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#10
RobbieK said:
If this reverses the phase of the pickups, then actually this may well help. If the inner windings of a coil is at earth, then the exposed poles won't buzz when touched. And there's a chance that right now the inner windings of that buzzy coil are either hot or halfway. If hot, then reversing the phase (you'll have to do both pickups) will put the inner windings to earth instead, and give you a quiet pickup coil. However, this will mean the other side will buzz now.

Your side-by-side J humbuckers are essentially skinny, in-line P pickups. And this problem happens with P basses all the time. (It comes up on this forum once a month I'd say. I'd rather not smear nail polish all over my early 70's P's pickup, so I have reversed its phase so one coil is quiet and the other buzzes just a little (its inner windings are halfway). Then I've moved the pickup so the buzzy coil is under the d/g where I never touch it with my playing style.

The other option is to run the pickups in parallel mode. (If possible). If they are are RPRW then you should be able to have all four coils in phase and with inner windings at earth. This however will brighten the tone of the pickups and also drop their output.

Reguardless, the poles shouldn't buzz if your fingers are earthed through the bridge/string earth wire. However if you run tape-wounds or elixyr-type coated strings, then the string earth does very little.
Click to expand...

It's throwing me off because this is my 2nd set of these pu's (Super 55's) and the 1st set (on another bass) have no such issue. The nail polish didn't change anything (but dauling they look marvelous! :D) and when I get some time I'll see if reversing the inputs helps. As you say, even if it reverses the sensitive (buzzy) poles to the D-G side, I like you are less likely to touch them as per playing style. So are you saying the coated strings could be causing this to happen, and if so why only 1/2 the pu's? These are the first coated strings I've used in a very long time so I don't have a background in their charactoristic +'s and -'s.
 
#11
RobbieK said:
if you run tape-wounds or elixyr-type coated strings, then the string earth does very little.
Click to expand...
bingo!

with normal strings, you won't touch the poles without also touching the grounded strings, negating or at least reducing the noise. if the strings are covered then your fingers don't get grounded.
 
#12
Yep, coated strings are great, but they often stop you from earthing the strings with your fingers, so these problems come up. I started using elixyrs on my P bass about 8 years ago (I used to get them cheap), and noticed this straight away.

OK, here's the test;

If one side buzzes a little, and the other doesn't buzz at all, then that's normal and that's what you want. So orientate the pickups so that with your playing position/style, you are less likely to touch the buzzy side. As I metioned, for me (and most finger-style players, that's the d/g side, as I put my thumb on the e/a side of the pickup.)

If one side buzzes a little, and the other side buzzes even more, then reverse the phase of both pickups, then reorientate them if neccessary.

Make sure you aren't also touching the strings when you are testing. (Older elixyrs will start to conduct as the coating starts to wear. This may throw your test off.)
 
#14
RobbieK said:
Yep, coated strings are great, but they often stop you from earthing the strings with your fingers, so these problems come up. I started using elixyrs on my P bass about 8 years ago (I used to get them cheap), and noticed this straight away.

OK, here's the test;

If one side buzzes a little, and the other doesn't buzz at all, then that's normal and that's what you want. So orientate the pickups so that with your playing position/style, you are less likely to touch the buzzy side. As I metioned, for me (and most finger-style players, that's the d/g side, as I put my thumb on the e/a side of the pickup.)

If one side buzzes a little, and the other side buzzes even more, then reverse the phase of both pickups, then reorientate them if neccessary.

Make sure you aren't also touching the strings when you are testing. (Older elixyrs will start to conduct as the coating starts to wear. This may throw your test off.)
Click to expand...

E-A side (4 poles on each pu) buzz when touched - w/no contact to the Rotosound nylon coated strings. D-G side silent - no buzz. I forgot to mention one detail that may (or may not) uncover something. I installed 2 bridge Fender Super 55 pu's on a Squier Jazz bass from 2000. (which had 2 same-width pu's) I'm not aware if using 2 bridge pu's have anything to do w/it… just pointing out the details. By 'reverse the phase' - how is this done on a pu that has a 3 prong wiring coupler? Do you nean reverse the coupler or reverse the orientation of the pu?
 
#15
wcriley said:
"Doc, it hurts when I do this."
"Then don't do that."
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When it first occurred, I put 3 layers of electrical tape on those poles and it quieted it substantially but didn't eliminate the buzzing. Busy fingers slip down between the strings - touching poles happens.
 
#17
E-A side (4 poles on each pu) buzz when touched - w/no contact to the Rotosound nylon coated strings. D-G side silent - no buzz.
Click to expand...

In that case, as I said in my last post, that's normal. Simply remove the pickups, turn them around and reinstall.

By 'reverse the phase' - how is this done on a pu that has a 3 prong wiring coupler? Do you nean reverse the coupler or reverse the orientation of the pu?
Click to expand...

Phase reversal is done electrically - altering the wiring, but as I mentioned, if you have one silent coil, then you don't need to do this.
 
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