Eden 115XLT Cone Diagnosis/Repair Options?

Heavystringsguy

Heavystringsguy

Jul 16, 2011
73
21
4,626
Denton, Tx
#1
Hello,

I noticed distortion coming from my Eden 115XLT (8ohm) yesterday evening on a gig. Interestingly, there were two issues including that my Genz Benz (ShuttleMAX 12.2) had a dirty effects loop connection issue. I fixed this and was pleased to notice that the sound had improved significantly.

While troubleshooting the aforementioned issue I used two basses, two power amps, three pre amps and two cabinets. After I fixed the Genz Benz everything sounded great through my other cab, a 210, but the 115 had a slight reoccurring fuzz/distortion no matter what combination of gear I played into it. I don't think I would have noticed it on a loud gig but in my apartment it was definitely present.

I experimented with the 115 a whole lot and came to the conclusion that the cone was damaged - for example, I noticed that if I pressed my finger lightly on the top of the cone it no longer distorted. It is not a rubbery sound, but a slight fuzz, at any volume while a note is being amplified. Also worth noting the fuzz/distortion doesn't sound loud compared to the notes coming through the cab, but it does get slightly louder as I increase the volume.

What is this slight fuzz being caused by? Because there is no creasing or tears it appears I did not damage the cone, but it the fuzz goes away by pressing lightly into the cone, so it must have something to do with the cone. It's not terribly noticeable just kind of annoying, unlike the damage I have heard from cones with creasing/tears, etc. Perhaps the issue is with glue/epoxy?

For the record I don't think this has anything to do with the l-pad because the cab is rated @400w for a power amp rated @ 375. I keep the EQ relatively even and don't slap or do anything like that. Signal never peaks, etc.

I am hoping to avoid reconing or replacing the whole unit but found a reconing kit and looked at some speakers that are similar to the original specs. I'm having trouble finding out what speaker Eden used exactly. There is no branding on the speaker, but I'll call Eden Monday morning to ask what the recommend. I also reached out to some Eden gurus on here to get their input.

Any thoughts/comments/opinions/experiences? thanks

Edit:
Found the replacement but it is $350!
 
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#2
The sound is made by the voice coil rubbing on the pole piece internally because of a warped voice coil. Pressing on the cone fixes it because it warps the cone in the opposite direction and gets it back aligned. The only fix is to recone or replace.

This is usually caused by overpowering. The more it is overpowered, the more the voice coil heats up, then expands, then warps.
 
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#3
mmbongo said:
The sound is made by the voice coil rubbing on the pole piece internally because of a warped voice coil. Pressing on the cone fixes it because it warps the cone in the opposite direction and gets it back aligned. The only fix is to recone or replace.

This is usually caused by overpowering. The more it is overpowered, the more the voice coil heats up, then expands, then warps.
Click to expand...
very interesting thank you! Sounds like I'll try reconing before eating $350 for a new one
 
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#4
It may be less expensive to give Eden a call and see about the cost of a factory replacement.

A word of caution, many (or even most) recone kits that are advertised as "just like the original" are in fact nothing more than generic parts marketed as something they aren't. Also, many are of very poor quality. For factory parts, there are strict tolerances that contribute to the correct tuning, the tone, and especially the reliability.

There was somebody on the web selling "genuine" Genz Benz recone kits when in fact there was no way they could have been. I had the only remaining factory parts in the world, and their numbers had nothing to do with our drivers. Once they were contacted by a "certain large company", they immediately discontinued marketing them as such.

The funniest thing is that they were selling a recone kit to a driver that never existed in our line...
 
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#7
Yikes, that sure seems expensive. You might call to be sure it's not a mistake.

As an alternative, you might want to look at how different availablee woofers model in that box rather than take the risk that the recone is unsuitable. At least you will know what you are getting.
 
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#8
agedhorse said:
Yikes, that sure seems expensive. You might call to be sure it's not a mistake.

As an alternative, you might want to look at how different availablee woofers model in that box rather than take the risk that the recone is unsuitable. At least you will know what you are getting.
Click to expand...

They show $355 for an Eden 12 and $300 for an Eden 10, so probably right. Definitely expensive for some Eminence made woofers. I’d say Eden marks them up just a bit :)
 
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#9
mmbongo said:
They show $355 for an Eden 12 and $300 for an Eden 10, so probably right. Definitely expensive for some Eminence made woofers. I’d say Eden marks them up just a bit :)
Click to expand...
I'm sure they do, but Eden speakers were never cheap. They were designed by David Nordschow and made in-house at their Montrose, MN headquarters for years. So they were never "off the shelf" speakers. Before he sold Eden and departed to start DNA, David had Eminence come out and try to replicate his designs. They couldn't do some of the things he was doing but were able to make a speaker using their resources that exactly matched his Thiele-Small and performance specs.

There was a fair amount of resistance to the new Eden by Eminence speakers at first, but nobody could tell the difference between them in use or in tests. Plus, there was no performance difference at all when someone had to replace one of the old speakers with the new Eden by Eminence speaker. So, after a couple of years, no one worried about it any more.

Eden speakers are still manufactured to Eden's specs at Eminence's Kentucky plant. Part of the increase in price though has got to be because they ship them to the Marshall cabinet shop in the UK where Eden cabs are built now. The Eden cabinets are all being made in the UK now and shipped here. The speakers themselves are making at least a 6,000 mile round trip for sale back in the US where they were made. Having the cabs made in the UK was good for Marshall, but not so good for us in the US. The pricing of cabs went up significantly because the speakers and the cabs now have to be shipped to the US from the UK.

The DNA cabs that have always been made in the US are now less expensive new than the Eden cabs. They used to be more expensive. That's why I usually recommend DNA amps and cabs if buying new and Eden amps and cabs if buying used. The DNA amps and cabs are great if you can find them used, but there's a lot of Eden used gear out there and not a lot of DNA used gear.
 
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#10
#11
I noticed that if I pressed my finger lightly on the top of the cone it no longer distorted.
Click to expand...
Did you press on the dome in the middle of the speaker, AKA the dust cover? If so, there’s a chance the dust cover is coming unglued somewhere around the circumference of where it is glued to the main cone. I’ve had a couple speakers do that in years past. It creates an annoying buzz that follows volume change. You would be very lucky if that’s the case. You can usually feel a dragging voice coil by spreading your hand like palming a basketball, touching the cone with all fingertips, pressing very lightly, and releasing lightly. If the VC is rubbing the magnet slot, you can feel the roughness through the cone. Good luck.
 
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#12
Tim Skaggs said:
If the VC is rubbing the magnet slot, you can feel the roughness through the cone.
Click to expand...

Heck, you'll hear it loudly!!! It's what speakers do to small physical inputs!

Sometimes cone/VC will start to sag as the surround degrades with age and make contact. If you lift "up" slightly does it go away? Replacing a surround is a fairly simple afternoon project, too. Check everything out really well before ordering a costly driver.
 
#13
OogieWaWa said:
Sometimes cone/VC will start to sag as the surround degrades with age and make contact. If you lift "up" slightly does it go away? Replacing a surround is a fairly simple afternoon project, too. Check everything out really well before ordering a costly driver.
Click to expand...

Not true with the type of surrounds used in bass guitar speakers, hasn't been true for probably 40-50 years.

The materials used in modern drivers with treated linen surrounds is dimensionally stable under a wide variety of environmental conditions.
 
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#14
Heavystringsguy said:
Hello,

I noticed distortion coming from my Eden 115XLT (8ohm) yesterday evening on a gig. Interestingly, there were two issues including that my Genz Benz (ShuttleMAX 12.2) had a dirty effects loop connection issue. I fixed this and was pleased to notice that the sound had improved significantly.
Click to expand...
So I guess your prefered sound is quite didtorted, is this right?
 
#16
Tim Skaggs said:
Did you press on the dome in the middle of the speaker, AKA the dust cover? If so, there’s a chance the dust cover is coming unglued somewhere around the circumference of where it is glued to the main cone. I’ve had a couple speakers do that in years past. It creates an annoying buzz that follows volume change. You would be very lucky if that’s the case. You can usually feel a dragging voice coil by spreading your hand like palming a basketball, touching the cone with all fingertips, pressing very lightly, and releasing lightly. If the VC is rubbing the magnet slot, you can feel the roughness through the cone. Good luck.
Click to expand...

No it was the cone, near the top, pretty far away from that part.
 
#17
Rip Van Dan said:
I'm sure they do, but Eden speakers were never cheap. They were designed by David Nordschow and made in-house at their Montrose, MN headquarters for years. So they were never "off the shelf" speakers. Before he sold Eden and departed to start DNA, David had Eminence come out and try to replicate his designs. They couldn't do some of the things he was doing but were able to make a speaker using their resources that exactly matched his Thiele-Small and performance specs.

There was a fair amount of resistance to the new Eden by Eminence speakers at first, but nobody could tell the difference between them in use or in tests. Plus, there was no performance difference at all when someone had to replace one of the old speakers with the new Eden by Eminence speaker. So, after a couple of years, no one worried about it any more.

Eden speakers are still manufactured to Eden's specs at Eminence's Kentucky plant. Part of the increase in price though has got to be because they ship them to the Marshall cabinet shop in the UK where Eden cabs are built now. The Eden cabinets are all being made in the UK now and shipped here. The speakers themselves are making at least a 6,000 mile round trip for sale back in the US where they were made. Having the cabs made in the UK was good for Marshall, but not so good for us in the US. The pricing of cabs went up significantly because the speakers and the cabs now have to be shipped to the US from the UK.

The DNA cabs that have always been made in the US are now less expensive new than the Eden cabs. They used to be more expensive. That's why I usually recommend DNA amps and cabs if buying new and Eden amps and cabs if buying used. The DNA amps and cabs are great if you can find them used, but there's a lot of Eden used gear out there and not a lot of DNA used gear.
Click to expand...

Very interesting thank you. I am seriously deterred from buying it because I paid about $350 for it the cabinet itself in the first place. Might check out a DNA
 
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#18
agedhorse said:
Yikes, that sure seems expensive. You might call to be sure it's not a mistake.

As an alternative, you might want to look at how different availablee woofers model in that box rather than take the risk that the recone is unsuitable. At least you will know what you are getting.
Click to expand...

Hey man! thanks for your work on my Genz btw - How would one look into finding out how these other drivers might sound? I'm much more skeptical of reconing now.
 
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