EMG 35DC Pickup Placement

[Mineboy808]

Hello everyone! Currently building my first bass and I'm struggling to figure out pickup placement. My bass's main inspiration is the tone of Les Claypool. Yes I know I can never get 100% of the way there, but it's still worth a shot! My bass is a 34" Scale, and I have 2 EMG E5DC pickups to use! I have no idea where to put the pickups. I've heard that the Musicman/ Stingray pickup placement works best, but I have 2 pickups, and I don't think splitting the difference would sound the same. If anyone has these pickups or information about where they're places in Claypool's 1976 walnut bass(32" scale), or any of his basses for that matter, it would be extremely helpful! Thanks!

 

[sikamikanico]

There’s no magic in pickup placement, but it does have a significant and reliable impact on tone. Generally, the further away from the bridge, the more bass in the sound. Bridge pickup placement is more sensitive (sound wise) to differences in position, so to approximate Les’s bass, that’s the one to pay attention to. But you could place them approximately where you have them and it should sound good anyway.

Ok, looking at pics of Les’s bass, the pickup (center) seems to be about 3 inches from the bridge (G string saddle). I estimated that visually by comparing the gap to the width of the pickup - the gap between the G string saddle to the edge of the pickup is about one and a half widths of the pickup, which is 1.5” wide. So the gap itself is about 2.25” and half of pickup width is .75” = 3” total.

now that’s on a 32” scale bass. To rescale that for 34” you’d multiply 3” by 34/32 = 3.18”. Looking at your pic, that would be moving the bridge pickup a smidge towards the neck.

You can place the neck pickup visually (eg half the distance between the fretboard and the bridge pickup), or you could go for the standard “neck” position which is about 6” from the bridge. I’d probably shoot for a little closer to the bridge, maybe 5 or 5.5” from the bridge.

Note that the scale itself also impacts sound. For example, E on a 34” scale sounds tighter than one a 32” scale. This means that the 32” scale is part of Les’s tone. But there is a trick to get the 32” tone on the 34” bass - simply tune down half a step. This moves the E (on the low string) to the first fret, which is just about 32” from the bridge. Now this does shift all your playing 1 fret over, so I’m not sure it’s worth your trouble, but it does technically get you closer to the 32” sound. Note that if you did do that, you’d want to keep the bridge pickup 3” from the bridge.

 

[poochiecheeks]

The neck coil of a stingray pickup in standard position is very close to his sound on the first few Primus albums. More recently his sound is a P pickup pushed towards the bridge from standard P position

 

[Mineboy808]

There’s no magic in pickup placement, but it does have a significant and reliable impact on tone. Generally, the further away from the bridge, the more bass in the sound. Bridge pickup placement is more sensitive (sound wise) to differences in position, so to approximate Les’s bass, that’s the one to pay attention to. But you could place them approximately where you have them and it should sound good anyway.

Ok, looking at pics of Les’s bass, the pickup (center) seems to be about 3 inches from the bridge (G string saddle). I estimated that visually by comparing the gap to the width of the pickup - the gap between the G string saddle to the edge of the pickup is about one and a half widths of the pickup, which is 1.5” wide. So the gap itself is about 2.25” and half of pickup width is .75” = 3” total.

now that’s on a 32” scale bass. To rescale that for 34” you’d multiply 3” by 34/32 = 3.18”. Looking at your pic, that would be moving the bridge pickup a smidge towards the neck.

You can place the neck pickup visually (eg half the distance between the fretboard and the bridge pickup), or you could go for the standard “neck” position which is about 6” from the bridge. I’d probably shoot for a little closer to the bridge, maybe 5 or 5.5” from the bridge.

Note that the scale itself also impacts sound. For example, E on a 34” scale sounds tighter than one a 32” scale. This means that the 32” scale is part of Les’s tone. But there is a trick to get the 32” tone on the 34” bass - simply tune down half a step. This moves the E (on the low string) to the first fret, which is just about 32” from the bridge. Now this does shift all your playing 1 fret over, so I’m not sure it’s worth your trouble, but it does technically get you closer to the 32” sound. Note that if you did do that, you’d want to keep the bridge pickup 3” from the bridge.

Ok, really helpful information! I've put a lot of time into this build so I'm definitely going to try and do it right. I think I'm going to make a jig that allows me to test out where the pickups will go, so I can move them around and see what sounds best! Though I'm wondering if I split the difference of the musicman/stingray pickup position, and use 50% of each pickup, might be better. It will definitely look a little weird with the stingray position, and another pickup on top . Thanks for the info though, will definitely be using it!

 

[kgbeast]

There is quite a bit of difference in pickup placement. I have two basses that use pretty much identical electronics (Peavey Cirrus). And a jazz bass which is of course totally different.
The bridge pickup on all 3 is the same 15in from the 12th to the middle of the pickup body.
However neck pickup is different. On one it is 12" from 12th to middle, and on other it is 11" from 12th to middle. The one with 11 sounds a lot less twangy on the D string which is the most noticeable played open. All other strings sound more rounded as well, but less noticeable. I like a little bit more with 11".
Also the two pickups together sound different as well. Seems like in 11" I can not say which is better, just different.
Looking at Les Claypool dual HB bass, it looks like the neck pickup is pretty close to the neck, I would say 10" to the 12th. But is seems to be longer scale as well.

 

[Mineboy808]

There is quite a bit of difference in pickup placement. I have two basses that use pretty much identical electronics (Peavey Cirrus). And a jazz bass which is of course totally different.
The bridge pickup on all 3 is the same 15in from the 12th to the middle of the pickup body.
However neck pickup is different. On one it is 12" from 12th to middle, and on other it is 11" from 12th to middle. The one with 11 sounds a lot less twangy on the D string which is the most noticeable played open. All other strings sound more rounded as well, but less noticeable. I like a little bit more with 11".
Also the two pickups together sound different as well. Seems like in 11" I can not say which is better, just different.
Looking at Les Claypool dual HB bass, it looks like the neck pickup is pretty close to the neck, I would say 10" to the 12th. But is seems to be longer scale as well.

Ah i see. Are you talking about his Maple 4 string or Antimatter bass? I think those are 36" scale, because Carl Thompson doesn't make 34" Scales. Seems like measurements are pretty standard for bridge pickups though, I might model my pickups after one of his dual HB basses. Thanks for the info!

 

[Mineboy808]

Hi everyone. I've decided to go with Claypools "Antimatter Bass" pickup locations (converted from 36" to 34" scale). It's fitted with 2 EMG40DC pickups, and according to my math the distance for each on a 34" scale:
11.493in (Neck)
15.366in (Bridge)

 

[kgbeast]

Something looks off here. I think the bridge pickup is too close to the bridge. Your measurement numbers seems good though (I think).

 

[Mineboy808]

Something looks off here. I think the bridge pickup is too close to the bridge. Your measurement numbers seems good though (I think).

Yeah, the Antimatter Bass is a 36 scale, mine Is a 34, so it will look a little off. I'll double check me measurements though. Maybe make an adjustment or two.

 

[ctmullins]

I would hate to have a pickup that close to the bridge.

 

[kgbeast]

On the other note, I do not think the scaling of the pickup locations is the same as fret spacing scaling (multiplying it by 0.9444). Fret spacing is to fraction the string comparing to the overall length. This would be for a 34" long G string , to get B. You would need to "scale" it 0.7937. basically make it 26.9858 at the same tension. So the scaling of the 4th fret on a 36", will be a simple 26.9858/0.9444=28.5732 would need to be shortened length to get B.
However pickup placement is based on the location of vibration nodes of the string, which is the same on any scale bass. So after thinking about it, I am convinced that you need to place the pickups from the scale end, g string saddle at 34", measuring back the same distances as in Antimatter. So if the bridge pickup is 2" from center to the g saddle on Antimatter, it should be the same on a 34" bass.
Also note, the harmonics of the string relates to the length/thickness. So the same string same electronics same pickup placement on 36" scale, will make an obviously different tone than on 34". Usually the shorter the scale, mellower and boomier the strings sound. You can compensate for that using different pickups and placement, but that is not calculable ordeal. So if you want Antimatter tone, you would need to get a 36" scale neck. That said, the tone you'll get from the bass you are building will have its own character and you might love it more than Claypool tone.

 

[Mineboy808]

On the other note, I do not think the scaling of the pickup locations is the same as fret spacing scaling (multiplying it by 0.9444). Fret spacing is to fraction the string comparing to the overall length. This would be for a 34" long G string , to get B. You would need to "scale" it 0.7937. basically make it 26.9858 at the same tension. So the scaling of the 4th fret on a 36", will be a simple 26.9858/0.9444=28.5732 would need to be shortened length to get B.
However pickup placement is based on the location of vibration nodes of the string, which is the same on any scale bass. So after thinking about it, I am convinced that you need to place the pickups from the scale end, g string saddle at 34", measuring back the same distances as in Antimatter. So if the bridge pickup is 2" from center to the g saddle on Antimatter, it should be the same on a 34" bass.
Also note, the harmonics of the string relates to the length/thickness. So the same string same electronics same pickup placement on 36" scale, will make an obviously different tone than on 34". Usually the shorter the scale, mellower and boomier the strings sound. You can compensate for that using different pickups and placement, but that is not calculable ordeal. So if you want Antimatter tone, you would need to get a 36" scale neck. That said, the tone you'll get from the bass you are building will have its own character and you might love it more than Claypool tone.

Yeah your right. I decided to go with the placement he uses for his maple 6 string on my 4 string (same scale). It wont sound the same by any means, but it would be a tone that hopefully suits what ill be playing with it. A lot of other luthiers said that the pickup is alarmingly close to the bridge. I wont "fret" about this too much more, as your right. My bass will have its own voice. Thanks for the help!

 

[ctmullins]

However pickup placement is based on the location of vibration nodes of the string

No it’s not.

 

[poochiecheeks]

Hi everyone. I've decided to go with Claypools "Antimatter Bass" pickup locations (converted from 36" to 34" scale). It's fitted with 2 EMG40DC pickups, and according to my math the distance for each on a 34" scale:
11.493in (Neck)
15.366in (Bridge)

View attachment 5382947 View attachment 5382948

FYI i had a Spector Euro 4 with two EMG 35 pickups laid out exactly like that and I could not get it to sound good for the life of me. The neck pickup sounded great on its own especially with a warmer style of pickup but something about blending in the bridge pickup that close to the bridge absolutely killed the sound, very hollow no matter what I did to it. If I were you I would shift both of those pickups or at least the bridge forward a bit more resembling newer thunderbird pickup placements. As others have said the scale length changes a lot in terms of pickup locations.

 

[micguy]

No it’s not.

If you understand the Physics of what's going on (I have a degree in this), it absolutely is.

As you play different notes, the active string length changes - what that means is that you can't place the pickup so that it always ignores the 5th harmonic, but when the string is 5x longer than the distance from the bridge to the pickup, it will absolutely do that. Why did I choose that example? Because..if you pick up a single coil/'51 style P bass, most of those have their pickup nailed dead on to 1/5th the distance from the bridge to the nut (most accurate on the G string). So, if you play that harmonic on the G string (just behind the 4th fret), you can hear it acoustically - the string is absolutely vibrating at that frequency. Now, plug in and play it again - you will not hear that harmonic in the electrical output - it is completely cancelled. The string has a node there for that harmonic (it isn't moving in that location) - so, if you "listen" there with a pickup located at that spot, you simply won't hear that harmonic.

Here is a frequency response of the comb filter resulting from pickup placement of the A string on a 34 inch bass - two curves, one is a P, the other a J:

The curve has the same shape for every string, but is shifted left or right, depending on the tuning of the string. You'll note a few things:

1) The fundamentals are all in that slope to the left on the graph - the lowest notes on any string have less fundamentals than if you move up the neck a bit - that's why the same note on the E string (played up 5 more frets) sounds "bassier" than the same note played low on the A string.

2) The harmonics are, depending on where the pickup(s) are located, filtered by this curve - when a harmonic is in a dip, it's gone. When it isn't, it's output depends on whether it's at a peak, or off to one side.

3) The "scoop" that we talk about on a J is that wider dip - about 500 Hz on this string (it is in a different place on every string). Also the lower output at low frequencies on the J curve is because you're averaging two pickups - the bridge one has less low end than the neck one, so the average is less than a neck pickup alone (aka P).

So, the timbre of a string is highly dependent on this comb filter - it's how the harmonics interact with that filter that makes a pickup location sound the way it does. If you look at the other things that affect the sound of a bass, at low and lower mid frequencies, it's almost all comb filtering/pickup locations - The locations of the nodes and antinodes of the fundamental and harmonics are (in the bass and lower mids) why different pickup locations sound different.

 

[ctmullins]

I appreciate your detailed explanation. And I understand nodes/antinodes at a basic level.

My disputation is one of intent: I don't believe that pickups are placed where they are by intent from the designers based on the node positions. I believe they're placed in general "zones" based on the basic tone profile desired:

• "close to the bridge" zone for nasal Jaco-style stuff
• "MM/Rickenbacker bridge" zone for fuller tones but still plenty of highs
• "P-bass" zone for lots and lots of mids and low-miss
• "close to the neck" for woofy tones

I think that people who claim that designers choose their pickup locations based on the node/antinode science are giving those designers/manufacturers way too much credit.

 

[markanini]

FYI i had a Spector Euro 4 with two EMG 35 pickups laid out exactly like that and I could not get it to sound good for the life of me. The neck pickup sounded great on its own especially with a warmer style of pickup but something about blending in the bridge pickup that close to the bridge absolutely killed the sound, very hollow no matter what I did to it. If I were you I would shift both of those pickups or at least the bridge forward a bit more resembling newer thunderbird pickup placements. As others have said the scale length changes a lot in terms of pickup locations.
View attachment 5384255

I just want to point out that's different from some more classically specced Spectors, which have a front pickup placed closer to the bridge. And that setup is loved by many people. So maybe your issue could be that of a too large of a spread between. Also the shadow makes it look like the back pickup is closer to the bridge than it really is.

Anyway the classic Spector placement is what I'd use for a 2PU, it's similar to what Warwick Streamer and Ken Smiths uses and it's super versatile, more so than a Jazz Bass IMO. But if it's supposed to be a tribute to a signature instrument, then that can't be the right answer.

 

[Mineboy808]

FYI i had a Spector Euro 4 with two EMG 35 pickups laid out exactly like that and I could not get it to sound good for the life of me. The neck pickup sounded great on its own especially with a warmer style of pickup but something about blending in the bridge pickup that close to the bridge absolutely killed the sound, very hollow no matter what I did to it. If I were you I would shift both of those pickups or at least the bridge forward a bit more resembling newer thunderbird pickup placements. As others have said the scale length changes a lot in terms of pickup locations.
View attachment 5384255

Hmmmm, I see. I ended up going with a relatively standard setup, P bass neck position and 60's Jazz pickup position. I saw a video on the internet of a guy using that setup with their bass on a 34" scale. I think it sounds good for what I'm going for. Thanks for the heads up though! (Also I noticed your bridge pickup is upside down, is that intentional?)

 

[kgbeast]

Another consideration can be slapability of a bass. In the above, the pickup is very close to the neck and that might complicate how this can be slapped. But of course if slap is not a problem, this position will provide improved neck position tone.

 

[Mineboy808]

Another consideration can be slapability of a bass. In the above, the pickup is very close to the neck and that might complicate how this can be slapped. But of course if slap is not a problem, this position will provide improved neck position tone.

Yeah, I'll be doing a lot of slapping, so I did cut 3 frets of because I rarely go up there, and I have a 24 fret bass(ESP LTD F-104) for stuff like that. Spacing Is very similar, so it shouldn't be much of an issue. Thanks for the insight!