Eminence Alpha 10a or Beta 10a in Sealed 2x10 Cab

markjazzbassist

markjazzbassist

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Apr 19, 2005
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#1
I'm looking to purchase an old Gibson Thor Tube Combo amp for small bar gigs. 50 Tube watts, big iron Trannies, and it comes with 2 Jensen 10" speakers (i'll sell). I'm looking to replace them with some more modern alternatives to get a little more low end and mids than the Jensens (guitar speakers).

the sealed cab volume is about 1.56 cu ft, so it's be .755 cu ft per speaker. Eminence Beta 10a or Alpha 10a work in sealed, so I'm just wondering for the Speaker Guru people, other than their frequency response, will there be a difference with a 50 watt amp? like do i want the more xmax for sealed or more whatever?

sorry not a big science numbers kinda guy so i'm not familiar with a lot of this.

Yes i was planning on stuffing the cab with some fiberglass/mattress topper.
 
#8
I have experience with alpha 6 and alpha 8. They are a decent, inexpensive, general purpose speaker. I think they would do well in this scenario. The betas have slightly more sensitivity, but I'm not sure you would really hear a difference, and the betas cost more. My vote would be the alphas over the betas.
 
#10
eminence specifically recommends the beta for bass use and the alpha really isn't that great of a speaker I don't really see why everyone prefers the alpha lol its a low cost midbass driver designed for really small enclosures.

you could use a pair of the 32 ohm
legends so you could have parallel wiring.

i
 
#11
BogeyBass said:
eminence specifically recommends the beta for bass use and the alpha really isn't that great of a speaker I don't really see why everyone prefers the alpha lol its a low cost midbass driver designed for really small enclosures.

you could use a pair of the 32 ohm
legends so you could have parallel wiring.

i
Click to expand...

I know it seems that way, but the Beta works better in a smaller enclosure than the Alpha, and will have a higher F3 (less mid and low bass) for a given bass response profile. The Beta also has more upper mids, so it has a more mid-forward tone. The Alpha and Beta both have about the same Xmax and Xlim, as well as the same sensitivity. The Beta has higher sensitivity on-axis because it has much greater upper mids peaking. In the bass and all the way up to the upper mids, the Alpha and Beta have the same sensitivity. The Beta has a higher thermal limit, but that is of no benefit with a 50w amp, even if it could produce 100w on peaks.
 
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#12
seems like exactly at 50 watts there's pprobably a high sensitivity beefy guitar speaker with alot more sensitivity to make better use of thelow wattage.

and yeah the beta alpha are almost exactly same on paper but I remember the alpha being little muddy and the Beta having a little more life to it. eminence does specifically recommend the beta for bass use. I can't model right now I'm sure that might expose the difference. we removed some alphas from a system and replaced them with deltas, high passed pa though the deltas had way more high end and closed the gap better on the tweets which were way up atthe typical 3k
 
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#13
BogeyBass said:
seems like exactly at 50 watts there's pprobably a high sensitivity beefy guitar speaker with alot more sensitivity to make better use of thelow wattage.

and yeah the beta alpha are almost exactly same on paper but I remember the alpha being little muddy and the Beta having a little more life to it. eminence does specifically recommend the beta for bass use. I can't model right now I'm sure that might expose the difference. we removed some alphas from a system and replaced them with deltas, high passed pa though the deltas had way more high end and closed the gap better on the tweets which were way up atthe typical 3k
Click to expand...

The Alpha can sound muddy if used in an enclosure that is too small, producing strong bass peaking. In a two-way speaker system the woofer and tweeter must be chosen so that there is no hole between them. The Delta extends higher than the Alpha, but has less bass. Not saying that any of these drivers are superior to the others, just that in a particular application one might be better suited.
 
#14
AstroSonic said:
So, if you decide on the Faitals, be sure to use the 10FE200-8. It's will provide the 16 ohm load (wired in series) the amp needs, and is actually more suited to a sealed cab than the 4 ohm model.
Click to expand...

nice info asto
which 8ohm speaker in your opinion (the alpha 10 or 10fe200) would handle the lows of 1/2 step down tuning sealed more dependably? 8+8 (series)=16
have an idea to stack a sealed 210 on top of a 610hlf (not mine) which I use at jam spot which is essentially 3 12ohm loads.
the sc10 looks good too, but is more $ and only comes in 16 or 32 ohm
 
#15
AstroSonic said:
The Alpha can sound muddy if used in an enclosure that is too small, producing strong bass peaking. In a two-way speaker system the woofer and tweeter must be chosen so that there is no hole between them. The Delta extends higher than the Alpha, but has less bass. Not saying that any of these drivers are superior to the others, just that in a particular application one might be better suited.
Click to expand...

so, if blocking the ports in an swr goliath 210 approx 1cf per speaker (i could reduce cf to with damping) may work for the alphas or 200fe.
the recommended specs for sealed state approx same for beta and alpha on eminence pdf file.
but you are saying the alphas will enjoy more cf(s) than the beta even though specs call for about the same?
what about the volume for sealed with 200fe's (8ohm sealed) are you recommending slightly larger for them over the betas volume requrements as well?
 
#16
AstroSonic said:
The Alpha can sound muddy if used in an enclosure that is too small, producing strong bass peaking. In a two-way speaker system the woofer and tweeter must be chosen so that there is no hole between them. The Delta extends higher than the Alpha, but has less bass. Not saying that any of these drivers are superior to the others, just that in a particular application one might be better suited.
Click to expand...
wondering what would be ideal size for a sealed alpha cf wise?
will be a modded 210 swr workingman & goliath III, (both are same sized cabs, just the III has a crossover) have already added a little extra dampening material and extended the shelf approx 1"
am kinda afraid i'll damage speaker if i run vented, cab is currently approx 21w x 13h x 13.25d so 2.2 is appox cf, i think!
according to recommended sealed size it needs to be .3 - .4.. does this sound correct or maybe TOO small to make the insides?
 
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#17
The ideal size depends on the tone you are looking for: HiFi (flat), rich with good articulation (mildly peaked) or with a lot of bloom or pillowy (strongly peaked. It also depends on amplification type: ss or tubes. If you are more interested in max volume and tight, articulate bass the Delta can be a good choice ported (around 1 cf per driver). The Alpha in 1 cf sealed yields a rich but articulate tone (moderately peaked). The Delta in 1 cf, tuned between 50 & 57 Hz yields a tighter, articulate tone (hifi, light EBS alignment), though a little bass boost can take it into a rich tone (but with a bit less power handling).
 
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#18
AstroSonic said:
The ideal size depends on the tone you are looking for: HiFi (flat), rich with good articulation (mildly peaked) or with a lot of bloom or pillowy (strongly peaked. It also depends on amplification type: ss or tubes. If you are more interested in max volume and tight, articulate bass the Delta can be a good choice ported (around 1 cf per driver). The Alpha in 1 cf sealed yields a rich but articulate tone (moderately peaked). The Delta in 1 cf, tuned between 50 & 57 Hz yields a tighter, articulate tone (hifi, light EBS alignment), though a little bass boost can take it into a rich tone (but with a bit less power handling).
Click to expand...
thanx astro
This is for alphas, not sure if its safe to use vented?
Am stacking it on top of a 610hlf (which is essentially 3 12ohm loads)
and prolly wiring the alphas in series for a 16ohm load this should end up at an approximate 3.2 ohm total.

not sure if i will like way i might have to eq the rig with a sealed/vented cab combination!
Tried a sealed 212 on top of a vented 215 a while back and it seemed kinda hard to tweak to the room

am doing some drop c#
 
#19
The Alpha 10A is great in a small sealed cab, but works poorly vented. Can't say about blending sealed and ported cabs. My preference would be to go with fully sealed or fully ported. The delta 10a's ported in 1 cf each would probably work quite well. with the 610hlf. However, the Alpha's (sealed) may work just fine.
 
#20
AstroSonic said:
The Alpha 10A is great in a small sealed cab, but works poorly vented. Can't say about blending sealed and ported cabs. My preference would be to go with fully sealed or fully ported. The delta 10a's ported in 1 cf each would probably work quite well. with the 610hlf. However, the Alpha's (sealed) may work just fine.
Click to expand...
cool. will try.. with the svt III if it sounds shaky or funny.. i'll try to have a bi-amp-able head ready as back-up to see if that is better and run the upper frequencies to the alphas..
Hope it has a thermal cut-off thermister!
3.3 ohms hopefully won't hurt it for an opening set, maybe 1 hour!
 
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