Equipment Ownership problems with member who left. How would U handle?

LowNloud1

LowNloud1

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Jun 11, 2012
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I am a hobbyist making stone picks that I sell but mostly give away. They made me do this anyways.
#1
My band bought lights 2 years ago. 4 members. One member left band. We want to buy him out. He wants to keep using the lights for his new band. Doesn't want to be bought out. (We have to tread carefully because he is a business partner to one of the band members.) Other members want to buy him out and not let him borrow lights.

We currently share a room with his other band. This coming October, we are getting our own practice room. We want to take control of the lights when we move. What would you do?
 
#2
I'd say you're on the right track. Buy him out, or he can buy y'all out. Maybe offer him more than 1/4 of the new value. Maybe let him use it until y'all get your own studio. When you move out, take the lights, leave him a check. Maybe sell it and everyone gets 25%.

In the future, one person buys a piece of gear and lets the band use it. Or get a written, signed agreement about what happens to shared gear when someone leaves. It might seem weird to do that between friends, but in the end it can save friendships.
 
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#3
Every band I have ever been in that bought gear had the same (WRITTEN) agreement up front.

One guy leaves and he takes nothing. The band splits up then everybody gets equal value in money and/or gear. Handle it that way from now on.

As for this situation, put the lights up for sale after researching what the market is for them. If that guy wants them he can buy them. If not, sell them and give him a quarter. Two bands owning the same lights is dumb. Very dumb. It will never work. The first time both bands are booked it will get a lot uglier than the sale of the lights will.
 
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#4
Another thread supporting my position that you never ever under any circumstances enter into any kind of a shared gear arrangement, written or verbal. It always becomes ugly and contentious in the end. In my current band, the guitar player owns the mains. I own the speaker stands, monitors, snake, cables, and board. We each supply our own mics and stands. There are no fees for using it. I believe in doing whatever will support the band.
I even tried loaning a band mate money to buy some equipment. That was 6 years ago and I'm still waiting to get paid back. So, no shared equipment and no loans to musicians. You can't trust 'em.
 
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#5
Sharing is bad, m'kay?

Either sell it all and everyone gets a cut, or offer to buy him out, like you're suggesting. If you buy him out, just rent it back to them when you don't have overlapping gigs.
 
#8
PauFerro said:
I buy all equipment I need so I don't have to deal with all those problems. I would buy a brand new set of lights and let him keep the ones he purchased.
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I own my basses, my amps, the board(s), the cables, the monitors, the mains, and all the stands and mics I use for mic'ing instruments as well as my personal mic and stand. Other musicians bring their own mics, stands instruments and amps. I also own the trailer and the truck that tows it. When the gig is over-I take my gear and my money and go home. If it's the last gig for me (and/or the band) it doesn't matter. No harm, no foul, no arguments. No need to settle up anything. AND NO SHARING. Doesn't work with girlfriends or PA equipment!
 
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#9
It's sounds like the issue is that he is not receptive to the buyout, making things difficult. I might try an involuntary buyout. Send him a check for whatever he contributed 2 years ago and move the lights without him knowing. This is a little extreme though. I would try convincing him first via talking. Ask him how he thinks this should all work after you all move to a new space and take the conversation from there. He may just drive himself to the conclusion of a buyout.
 
#10
Gravedigger Dav said:
you never ever under any circumstances enter into any kind of a shared gear arrangement, written or verbal. It always becomes ugly and contentious in the end.
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Well, never enter into any unclear agreements about gear, or agreements which you don't have enough leverage to enforce. Note that "leverage to enforce" isn't = to any leverage at all (for example, "he's a buddy, so he wouldn't want to screw me over"). The leverage needs to equal or exceed the value of the gear in question.

Gravedigger Dav said:
I even tried loaning a band mate money to buy some equipment. That was 6 years ago and I'm still waiting to get paid back.
Click to expand...

What was the agreement about his repayment schedule to you, and what leverage—equal to or exceeding the value of money you loaned—did you have to enforce that schedule?

No agreement? Not enough leverage? Then, yeah: front him money only if you're absolutely at peace with the possibility of never getting it back. Otherwise, you're out not only the amount loaned, but whatever emotional investment you'll make in being pissed off, feeling betrayed, and nursing a grudge.

Band agreements about gear purchased in common can work, if they're businesslike and specific about tracking money invested, how to value depreciated equipment, and how to handle buyouts in various circumstances (members leaving, members being fired, band or LLC dissolving, etc). Those details should be in writing, clear to all, and signed.

Yeah, if a band's members aren't businesslike (the band's mostly a social or recreational outlet for some of the players), then shared purchases are a bad idea. But if you're trying to get a wedding band off the ground, you either need to make the band vulnerable to one or two deep-pocketed players or else pool resources.
 
#11
derrico1 said:
Well, never enter into any unclear agreements about gear, or agreements which you don't have enough leverage to enforce. Note that "leverage to enforce" isn't = to any leverage at all (for example, "he's a buddy, so he wouldn't want to screw me over"). The leverage needs to equal or exceed the value of the gear in question.



What was the agreement about his repayment schedule to you, and what leverage—equal to or exceeding the value of money you loaned—did you have to enforce that schedule?

No agreement? Not enough leverage? Then, yeah: front him money only if you're absolutely at peace with the possibility of never getting it back. Otherwise, you're out not only the amount loaned, but whatever emotional investment you'll make in being pissed off, feeling betrayed, and nursing a grudge.

Band agreements about gear purchased in common can work, if they're businesslike and specific about tracking money invested, how to value depreciated equipment, and how to handle buyouts in various circumstances (members leaving, members being fired, band or LLC dissolving, etc). Those details should be in writing, clear to all, and signed.

Yeah, if a band's members aren't businesslike (the band's mostly a social or recreational outlet for some of the players), then shared purchases are a bad idea. But if you're trying to get a wedding band off the ground, you either need to make the band vulnerable to one or two deep-pocketed players or else pool resources.
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We will have to remain in disagreement about this. Even written arrangements are difficult to enforce without getting lawyers involved and that can be more expensive than any lose you might suffer. I have been gigging now for 53 years, so I've seen just about everything there is to see in gear and money arrangements. My opinion is from lots of experience.
I will agree that sometimes they might work out, but I don't care to suffer the exposure. YMMV
 
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#12
Do not share. If something happens to them when one band has them out for a gig, one side is going to want to be compensated, and the other will not do so. Either offer to pay him 1/4 of the original purchase price, or let him buy you out - give him a slight discount since they are used.

This is why I do not like band-owned equipment.

As to written contracts, they can be good so that everyone is clear as to what the agreement is, but it is rare that you are going to go to court for disputes of this size.
 
#13
I did a band share once, but all money came from the band kitty. We were a 4 piece band, and we paid a 5th share to the band kitty. Since we were working regularly, the kitty got to be pretty strong. We used it for band expenses (gas for out of town gigs, postcards, posters, etc), sundry items like a hand truck or extension cords, or for emergencies like pay phone calls, parking tickets, etc.. Once the kitty got to over $1K, we used it to purchase a PA. When the band broke up, the guitarist purchased the PA from the rest of us at a depreciated value. The kitty was split up 4 ways, and I got to keep the hand truck. The previous drummer in the band didn't get anything from the kitty, but the guy who was around at the end did. It wound up being equitable since we got the most work with the new drummer. It went about as smooth as it could, but we were all friends before we put the band together.

Even though I had a good experience, there's no way I would do that again. The band I mentioned was around for about 4 years, which is an eternity in band years. We were young, and we were good friends. Nowadays, bands are much more fluid, so there's no way I could count on folks sticking around to make the final payment. I'm not sure if I can put financial trust into someone I met on Craigslist. I've narrowly escaped some 'joint-ownership' plots in the past that would have thinned the wallet with no hope of a return. At this point, it's just easier for one person to own the equipment and make arrangements from there. I guess as I get older and have more personal financial stability, the need and desire to pool resources is reduced and experience tells me that it's often not worth it. Quite honestly, whenever I hear "we need you to pitch in for XXX", I cringe and and subconsciously administer the smell test
 
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#14
jive1 said:
I did a band share once, but all money came from the band kitty. We were a 4 piece band, and we paid a 5th share to the band kitty. Since we were working regularly, the kitty got to be pretty strong. We used it for band expenses (gas for out of town gigs, postcards, posters, etc), sundry items like a hand truck or extension cords, or for emergencies like pay phone calls, parking tickets, etc.. Once the kitty got to over $1K, we used it to purchase a PA. When the band broke up, the guitarist purchased the PA from the rest of us at a depreciated value. The kitty was split up 4 ways, and I got to keep the hand truck. The previous drummer in the band didn't get anything from the kitty, but the guy who was around at the end did. It wound up being equitable since we got the most work with the new drummer. It went about as smooth as it could, but we were all friends before we put the band together.

Even though I had a good experience, there's no way I would do that again. The band I mentioned was around for about 4 years, which is an eternity in band years. We were young, and we were good friends. Nowadays, bands are much more fluid, so there's no way I could count on folks sticking around to make the final payment. I'm not sure if I can put financial trust into someone I met on Craigslist. I've narrowly escaped some 'joint-ownership' plots in the past that would have thinned the wallet with no hope of a return. At this point, it's just easier for one person to own the equipment and make arrangements from there. I guess as I get older and have more personal financial stability, the need and desire to pool resources is reduced and experience tells me that it's often not worth it. Quite honestly, whenever I hear "we need you to pitch in for XXX", I cringe and and subconsciously administer the smell test
Click to expand...

That's what I think. Take a little off the top of the gigs you book and use it to buy equipment and pay for sundry expenses. Anything you can do to be independent of the band will help you in the long run...
 
#16
The older the bands get, the more likely the rhythm guitarist/dentist will just buy the PA and lights.

Young originals bands w/ working class players are more likely to have to arrange joint purchase, and that'll work better if well arranged than if left to assumptions, good will, and chance. Similarly, new GB/wedding bands have a different level of necessary PA quality, lights, etc. Sometimes, that makes $ense to just contract out during the start-up stage, but often not. In GB bands that don't already have gear established or well-heeled members, a formalized contract (if not a full on LLC) can make sense.
 
#17
What would I do? Like me, personally?

I would let him have it all (the member who left). No charge. What are you out, maybe a couple hundred dollars each?
I never understand why people are so hung up on money. I also really don't understand the mindset of people who wont play in certain circumstances, because no money changes hands.

That's me, and how I feel and think; but I know I am an anachronism.
 
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#18
you buy him out and rent it back to him, if that. If he buys you out, he pays new price because you guys have to buy a whole new one and wouldn't be selling otherwise. You buy him out you pay used price because he enjoyed use of it as well - don't pay more than a new 1/4.

Sometimes you see single speakers for sale - pretty regularly. I think this is when someone takes their portion of the P.A. - if there are 4 lights give him one.
 
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#19
comatosedragon said:
What would I do? Like me, personally?

I would let him have it all (the member who left). No charge. What are you out, maybe a couple hundred dollars each?
I never understand why people are so hung up on money. I also really don't understand the mindset of people who wont play in certain circumstances, because no money changes hands.

That's me, and how I feel and think; but I know I am an anachronism.
Click to expand...

Hey man, can I have $200? Were all friends here. Heck, I'll even jam with you if I'm ever in town.

Actually scratch that, I need you to come valet cars for me for 15 hours this week. No problem right?
 
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#20
comatosedragon said:
What would I do? Like me, personally?

I would let him have it all (the member who left). No charge. What are you out, maybe a couple hundred dollars each?
I never understand why people are so hung up on money. I also really don't understand the mindset of people who wont play in certain circumstances, because no money changes hands.

That's me, and how I feel and think; but I know I am an anachronism.
Click to expand...

The guy left the band, and formed another band, and you want to reward him?

Gotta be fair to everyone.
 
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