Finding your tone: Gig rig vs practice rig?

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rockinb

Jan 26, 2013
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Irvine, CA
#1
There is a good thread about gigging rigs vs practice rigs. Thread:
Gig Rig and Practice Rig: Are they the same?

It seems like a fair number of players have very different rigs for practice vs gigging. My question is what is the best technique to dial in your "tone" when constantly switching between rigs? Is it just brute force of playing hours through each rig and memorizing what sounds good with each combination? Or are there short cuts or tricks you have used?

Am posting new thread, since the other thread mentioned above is more about what types of rigs you use. I am more intrigued with how you dial in your "tone" when you have multiple combinations of heads, cabs, cab makers, cab sizes. And for kicks, now throw in different basses (main vs. backup bass) with different pickups!

And yes, I do realize that playing only one brand of bass, one model of pickups, one brand of cabs and amps would help make things more consistent tone-wise. However, what's the fun of that?? (no to mention it seriously cuts down on the fun of GASsing).
 
#2
Over the years. I've discovered that stressing over the nebulous thing called "tone" when setting up for a gig -- worrying about if the sloppy drunk in the back of the room is hearing my best tone. Makes no difference to me, nor to the drunks; each room changes dramatically with crowd, layout, room construction, soundman preferences, FOH speakers. Dithering with a frequency knob knocks me right out of the pocket, so i'd rather play my best than worry if I'm achieving a perfect tone. I have more fun playing than stressing. If something is really "out" someone will let you know.
 
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#4
I have several different heads, cabs and basses that I gig, and I use them for practicing. Three of my four heads have very different EQ sections. The Jazz bass and P bass are different tone-wise as well. With that said, I have sound/tone goals that I shoot for at every gig.

My goal is as follows:
Good solid mids.
Decent lows. No boomy, muddy sloppy low frequencies.
Enough highs to be clean, but not sizzling.

To obtain this goal, I set each head pretty neutral and adjust EQ as need to obtain goal. It's not hard if you have realistic goals and understand the frequencies you need to adjust with your EQ.

Every gig you play will be different. Room acoustics or even outdoor gigs will be different. At my regular gig (a theater with a raised stage) it is different depending on where you setup on the stage.

It also depends on the equipment you are working with. With my Monique pre, it is simple to get a good tone. Just a little tweaking, adjust the Sensitivity and I'm done. With the ToneHammer, I find the mid frequency and level that I need and tweak the bass and treble. The Thunderfunks have a great EQ plus the Timbre control, so with it, I adjust the frequency and add or cut as needed.

I think many people have problems because they are trying to obtain their "bedroom settings" on a gig. They play a bass, so they crank the bass knob. It doesn't work that way. You want a good, strong tone that doesn't clash with the other instruments, and sounds good to your audience. I don't think you memorize what "sounds good". That changes according to your environment. You learn how your EQ works and how your cabs are voiced and, as JimmyM stated, "turn the knobs until it sounds good". If you understand the frequencies you are working with, it becomes an easy task.
 
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#5
Practice and gigs are two different animals to me.

For me, practice time is not about an ideal tone. It is about hearing what I am doing, pitch, dynamics, timing. My practice tone is a little thin and pretty forward sounding. On the gig I want a full and clear tone in the room - a far less aggressive and fatter tone.

I've got a pretty wide range of gear, and through trial and error and experience I've gotten to where can I smash just about anything into submission on a gig. But, I'm also not trying to replicate an idealized tone - just full and clear and works in the room at hand. I long ago gave up on fine nuanced tone quests.

Brut force is my approach. Time in the saddle with both, there's no other way for me.
 
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#6
at rented practice spaces i always bring my rat tail and dark driving to kind of imitate the tone i get with the overdriven mesa tube head, otherwise i wouldn't be able to play the harmonics audibly like i do at shows
 
#7
Bigskybassguy said:
Over the years. I've discovered that stressing over the nebulous thing called "tone" when setting up for a gig -- worrying about if the sloppy drunk in the back of the room is hearing my best tone. Makes no difference to me, nor to the drunks; each room changes dramatically with crowd, layout, room construction, soundman preferences, FOH speakers. Dithering with a frequency knob knocks me right out of the pocket, so i'd rather play my best than worry if I'm achieving a perfect tone. I have more fun playing than stressing. If something is really "out" someone will let you know.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I've only been gigging a little while and at gigs we have 15 min to set up sound check and go, so not much time to EQ for the room. Add in difference between practice and gig gear, plus room acoustics, live band mix vs. bedroom sound and I had pretty much given up on fine tuning for gigs. I kept reading on TB how some guys are so particular about dialing in their tone, I was intrigued to know how they did it under the same circumstances. Glad to know I am not the only one who "wings" it at gigs. Thanks for the info!
 
#8
dmrogers said:
I have several different heads, cabs and basses that I gig, and I use them for practicing. Three of my four heads have very different EQ sections. The Jazz bass and P bass are different tone-wise as well. With that said, I have sound/tone goals that I shoot for at every gig.

My goal is as follows:
Good solid mids.
Decent lows. No boomy, muddy sloppy low frequencies.
Enough highs to be clean, but not sizzling.

To obtain this goal, I set each head pretty neutral and adjust EQ as need to obtain goal. It's not hard if you have realistic goals and understand the frequencies you need to adjust with your EQ.

Every gig you play will be different. Room acoustics or even outdoor gigs will be different. At my regular gig (a theater with a raised stage) it is different depending on where you setup on the stage.

It also depends on the equipment you are working with. With my Monique pre, it is simple to get a good tone. Just a little tweaking, adjust the Sensitivity and I'm done. With the ToneHammer, I find the mid frequency and level that I need and tweak the bass and treble. The Thunderfunks have a great EQ plus the Timbre control, so with it, I adjust the frequency and add or cut as needed.

I think many people have problems because they are trying to obtain their "bedroom settings" on a gig. They play a bass, so they crank the bass knob. It doesn't work that way. You want a good, strong tone that doesn't clash with the other instruments, and sounds good to your audience. I don't think you memorize what "sounds good". That changes according to your environment. You learn how your EQ works and how your cabs are voiced and, as JimmyM stated, "turn the knobs until it sounds good". If you understand the frequencies you are working with, it becomes an easy task.
Click to expand...

Awesome information. Great approach and very helpful. I even bookmarked and to try the techniques you mention. The "bedroom" settings and memorizing what "sounds good" are also a great call outs. I was always starting with the familiar settings (aka bedroom settings) and then going somewhat nuts trying to adjust the tone at gigs for the room. Really helpful. Thanks!
 
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#9
Interceptor said:
Practice and gigs are two different animals to me.

For me, practice time is not about an ideal tone. It is about hearing what I am doing, pitch, dynamics, timing. My practice tone is a little thin and pretty forward sounding. On the gig I want a full and clear tone in the room - a far less aggressive and fatter tone.

I've got a pretty wide range of gear, and through trial and error and experience I've gotten to where can I smash just about anything into submission on a gig. But, I'm also not trying to replicate an idealized tone - just full and clear and works in the room at hand. I long ago gave up on fine nuanced tone quests.

Brut force is my approach. Time in the saddle with both, there's no other way for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post. I don't feel so bad since I've only been gigging a short while and still have not mastered dialing in tone on the fly quickly.
 
#10
rockinb said:
Awesome information. Great approach and very helpful. I even bookmarked and to try the techniques you mention. The "bedroom" settings and memorizing what "sounds good" are also a great call outs. I was always starting with the familiar settings (aka bedroom settings) and then going somewhat nuts trying to adjust the tone at gigs for the room. Really helpful. Thanks!
Click to expand...

You are very welcome! Actually, I want to thank you for starting this thread. This is something that I think a lot of musicians gloss over. It is very important and something that every musician should strive to understand.

To actually test the "Bedroom Settings" theory do this: Set your head for a killer sound at home where you practice. Don't change the setting (or you can write them down). Then try them at your next gig. Chance are it will be way off. At the very least, you will have to make adjustments. Or you can try it vice-versa. Take your last gig settings and try them at your practice space.

How many times have you heard a bassist that sound like a big thud? Just a muddy, boomy mess. They either didn't adjust the EQ properly or they cranked the lows to the point that they had no definition in their tone. Then that gets mixed in with the kick and you have a painful noise!

I will also add:

Your overall tone also depends on the equipment you use.

My AudioKinesis Hathor cabs are much more mid forward than my Aguilar GS112 stack.

My ToneHammer 500 is more "old school" voiced than my very clean and neutral Thunderfunks.

The P Bass is very different than a J Bass. One band I play in, I almost exclusively use a P bass. In the other band I can use either. I can use the Jazz bass in the second band because it is an acoustic band and I am not fighting for a "slot" frequency wise. The other instruments are; acoustic guitar, banjo, mandolin and accordion. So I have a wide slot that I can fit either the P bass or J bass into without stepping on anyones toes.


I hope this makes sense.
 
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#11
JimmyM said:
Turn knobs till it sounds good, rock, pack up, go home.
Click to expand...

It took me a while to be able to do the first part, like a good few years. Once I had it all figured out though, it's been pretty simple with any amp - like you say, turn knobs 'till it sounds good. Going from practice to gig with different amps is a lot less complicated than it seems - if they don't like how you sound, they'll let you know, just like @Bigskybassguy said, and @Interceptor has a very good point as well re: bedroom tones, it's good to check up on your technique with a more mid/treble aggressive tone, so that you'll notice sloppy technique more, things like fret noise and such, doesn't sound so good and I don't always do it, but it's good practice.
 
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#12
it's taken some time to get to this point, but i try not worry too much about my tone. tweak the knobs until they sound good. for me this usually means start everything at noon, bumb up the mids a bit and pull back the treble some. volume is often the most critical aspect of tone, but that's usually dictated by the playing scenario

if i'm practicing, it just has to sound good enough

if i'm gigging, i really just have to make sure i'm heard by myself, the band, and the audience. tone is secondary - most of the audience doesn't care

equipment can certainly help, but by and large i ascribe to the old wisdom "tone is in the fingers"....and in your head
 
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#15
I do my best to practice with the same rigs i perform with. I also do my best to practice at reasonably similar volumes as i do at gigs. I also live in the middle of nowhere!! I play through a couple old Ampeg tube heads, and some Ampeg cabs (215 and 212)

Our band also does fully recorded rehearsals in a studio. Direct for the electric instruments, a couple mics on the drum kit, headphones. Im fortunate enough to have my signal run through a UA1176 in the studio, sooooo im super spoiled.

All in all, i think that its VERY important to be able to practice with the same attack in home practice, full band rehearsal, and at gigs. However you need to set the controls to do that can be widely different.

JimmyM is right...again. Turn the knobs. Youll never stop turning knobs.
 
#16
rockinb said:
Good to know. I've only been gigging a little while and at gigs we have 15 min to set up sound check and go, so not much time to EQ for the room. Add in difference between practice and gig gear, plus room acoustics, live band mix vs. bedroom sound and I had pretty much given up on fine tuning for gigs. I kept reading on TB how some guys are so particular about dialing in their tone, I was intrigued to know how they did it under the same circumstances. Glad to know I am not the only one who "wings" it at gigs. Thanks for the info!
Click to expand...

When I'm in a hurry to get set for a gig, I have two thoughts with my sound. Don't over-serve the lows and don't skimp on the mids - I'm probably talking about the "low-mids" in the neighborhood of 400-500 Hz. I certainly don't crank up these mids, but they seem to give my sound some authority so I can project in the mix.

The tricky part comes when I switch between basses. My old honey-bunny is a passive Jazz with a big warm tone that's a little shy in the mids (typical with my specific pickups). When playing this bass, I like to boost my mids and cut my lows, but my other instrument is an active P/J with a really aggressive tone. That one calls for boosting my lows and also cutting my mids or else it sounds borderline angry and thin (ex-girlfriend jokes anyone?).

Hopefully your bandmates will be able to give you a little helpful guidance. When my drummer is happy with my sound, he has a perma-grin nod because he can lock right in with me. My guitar player actually asked me to turn down when I played that active P/J at a show for the first time. Didn't see that one coming, but the eq fix was easy.
 
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#18
Wise assery aside, what I do is go in with a flat eq. If the room is boomy, I cut the low end. Other than that, I don't do much twiddling. Nobody but me cares.

It helps that I have been using the same amp for shows for a number of years. Going from the practice amp to the gigging amp is like making the adjustment between driving my wife's Honda and driving my van. It's doing the same thing, really. One's just bigger.
 
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#19
I don't recall who it was now...might have been Chris Squire? Anyway, it was an interview with some famous bassist, and he compared building one's tone to building a house. Lows are the foundation, treble is the trim, but the structured space in the middle is where everything happens.
 
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#20
I use the same head for both practice and gig, just different cabs (2 4x10 vs 1x12).

In general I think it's a great practice to rehearse with the gig rig. That was how we did it back in my loud metal days. We'd rehearse (in our tiny room) with around our same volume and settings used on stage. This helped us really understand and get a great stage sound/band mix dialed in. In metal gigs dialing in is pretty important as the mix can get so thick and there are major issues related to clarity/balance/cutting through. For a typical rock or lighter gig things can be much less specific IMO, more liberty in the sonic space. In most bands I can use about any amp and dial in my typical growly sound.
 
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