Fingerstyle Guitar and Electric Bass Duos?

Jeff Elkins

Jeff Elkins

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Sep 13, 2007
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#1
I jam with an older songwriter that plays fingerstyle guitar: blues and folk, with a prominent thumb bass motion. We'd like to find ways to perform together, but I'm looking for some inspiration about how to mesh with (or add-to) what he's doing. Half of what we're hoping to work up is an originals set, so I really have no expected role, as long as it works. We both sing and harmonize well, and that's part of the package we hope to present.

I play electric and upright--for this collective I want to focus on fretless electric. We also play bluegrass together in another incarnation--he's a killer banjo player. But this is different, and I'm leaving the upright at home.

I've tried looking at Jack and Jorma, but neither of us play as well as those guys; we're working on that, but it's a stretch. I've never been a soloist, so taking a lead or even a complicated counterpoint is also currently a stretch, though I'm studying jazz, read music well, and can learn almost anything. And he's not a flatpicker or a jazz player; well-played country blues is what it is and will be. Harris Brothers are local to us, and I really love a lot of what they do, but he doesn't play like that.

However, I do NOT want to play along with his thumb, plus the sonic space is muddy if I'm also there. I also don't want to just play the root-five role that I have in our bluegrass band.

After all this talk about what won't work (IMO, only, I recognize), does anyone have suggestions for what DOES? I'd love your suggestions and examples. TIA
 
#2
If his finger picking is like Travis Picking. Less is more. Perhaps a root note at each chord change and then nothing more till the next chord change. If he is busy - there is not a lot of space for you....

Augment do not compete.

Other than that I'm going to watch and see what the guys add.
 
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#3
Thanks, @MalcolmAmos!

The problem with just playing roots on one is that it doesn't add anything to the music. We're trying to develop something sonically interesting... something worth watching, worth my even being on the stage for more than harmony vocals.

I keep thinking that there MUST be groups out there doing this who've figured out how to work with the challenge.
 
#10
Jeff Elkins said:
As soon as I get to my PC where I can hear what Danny is doing, I'm going to dive into this. Thank you!
Click to expand...
There's a whole album of Richard Thompson & Danny Thompson called "Industry" (featuring the Danny Thompson penned, "Kitty 'Tommy, quick! I can hear clogs going up the street.' Tommy 'Well stick mine out and see if they'll go with 'em!'"). Worth a listen. Richard's voice isn't everyone's cup of tea, but you can't not like his guitar playing. Danny is....well....Danny. Sublime.
 
#11
Jeff Elkins said:
I jam with an older songwriter that plays fingerstyle guitar: blues and folk, with a prominent thumb bass motion. We'd like to find ways to perform together, but I'm looking for some inspiration about how to mesh with (or add-to) what he's doing. Half of what we're hoping to work up is an originals set, so I really have no expected role, as long as it works. We both sing and harmonize well, and that's part of the package we hope to present.

I play electric and upright--for this collective I want to focus on fretless electric. We also play bluegrass together in another incarnation--he's a killer banjo player. But this is different, and I'm leaving the upright at home.

I've tried looking at Jack and Jorma, but neither of us play as well as those guys; we're working on that, but it's a stretch. I've never been a soloist, so taking a lead or even a complicated counterpoint is also currently a stretch, though I'm studying jazz, read music well, and can learn almost anything. And he's not a flatpicker or a jazz player; well-played country blues is what it is and will be. Harris Brothers are local to us, and I really love a lot of what they do, but he doesn't play like that.

However, I do NOT want to play along with his thumb, plus the sonic space is muddy if I'm also there. I also don't want to just play the root-five role that I have in our bluegrass band.

After all this talk about what won't work (IMO, only, I recognize), does anyone have suggestions for what DOES? I'd love your suggestions and examples. TIA
Click to expand...

Fretless is a great start for that sort of arrangement.

I used to be in a duo with a singer songwriter who fingerpicked and played very percussively, slapping his open E and A strings and letting them drone while he played higher partials, as well as the kind of thumb picking you're talking about.

What worked for me was long sustained notes on fretless with a lot of vibrato in some songs, and countermelody in others. Never soloing, per se, but playing the kinds of lines and fills a sax player or even a backup singer might. I never went above where the 12th fret would be but spent a lot of time in the 5th to 10th zone.

EQ slotting is very important to avoid the mud you're rightly concerned about. If he's using a lot of low end you should dial down your lows in the same frequency range and emphasize your upper mids. Maybe get him to take out some upper mids from his tone. The classic frettless Jazz bass bridge pickup sound, tone all the way up, would be a good place to start. As would adding some chorus to your sound, potentially.

The other big thing for me was thinking in terms of oppositional movement. When he was playing down towards the nut I would move up the neck. When he went up high, I went down low. When he was playing busy parts I would play whole notes. When he let chords ring I would do fills.

It's a very different mindset and tone to have from most traditional bass playing, but it can sound great if you do it well.
 
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#12
Great suggestions so far. I did a lot of this up until a few years ago, like you on fretless electric. The first guy, who was an absolutely amazing fingerstyle guitarist, just flat out told me at the first practice together "Stay away from my thumb." So I did a number of things ... first I really learned to listen and play off what he was doing, and I had to study the songs pretty thoroughly. I did some more percussive type "slaps" (not the funk thumb slap thing, just striking the strings against the fingerboard on off beats etc.) if that fit the song, or played more melodic lines, or variations that built on what he was playing. It was a lot of fun!
 
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