Flat shim too high?

bigmuffpotpi

bigmuffpotpi

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Feb 27, 2018
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#1
So I've got this 2012 USA Jazz that's my dream bass in every way except for this neck problem. Initially, I ran out of clearance to lower saddles (I'd set the proper neck relief so that wasn't the issue) and still couldn't get low action, so I took it to my tech. I requested a full pocket shim and assumed he'd put in an angled shim but he put in a flat shim and now the neck seems too high, not to mention there's not too much clearance left at the bridge anyway. Am I obsessing or is the neck really too high, and would've an angled shim been better? Cheers.
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#2
bigmuffpotpi said:
So I've got this 2012 USA Jazz that's my dream bass in every way except for this neck problem. Initially, I ran out of clearance to lower saddles (I'd set the proper neck relief so that wasn't the issue) and still couldn't get low action, so I took it to my tech. I requested a full pocket shim and assumed he'd put in an angled shim but he put in a flat shim and now the neck seems too high, not to mention there's not too much clearance left at the bridge anyway. Am I obsessing or is the neck really too high, and would've an angled shim been better? Cheers.View attachment 3006670 View attachment 3006671 View attachment 3006672 View attachment 3006673 View attachment 3006674 View attachment 3006675 View attachment 3006676
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Hard to tell from a photo. String height should be around 5/64th inch at the 17th fret as a general guideline. Measure it and let us know. I have always used a small shim at the heel of the neck so the neck angle is changed, not the overall height of the neck. This allows you to raise the bridge saddles and have some adjustability.
 
#3
I've never seen a shim like that. The shim should be angled so the larger end is at the heal of the pocket. IMHO, that shim is too thick.

I've cut up a business card to fit the heal of the pocket (half the size of the pocket). If that doesn't work, then a second piece a quarter of the size of the pocket, and place that on top of the first piece.
 
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#5
The neck being too high is somewhat a matter of personal taste, however, if you are trying to get it so you can raise the bridge saddles more then, yes, a tapered shim will have a much larger effect then a full size flat shim. A full tapered shim is not usually necessary though. As others here have posted, a small shim at the body end of the neck pocket is fine. I normally only make a full size tapered shim if a large angle is needed, for instance, adding a Bigsby to a telecaster. However, if the full size shim makes you feel better about the bass then, go back to your tech and request that.

Also, can’t tell from the pic but that big of a shim should probably have some finish on it. Even a couple of coats of Krylon clear would help.
 
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#6
A full length shim is almost never the answer to a problem. You told someone how to do their job instead of presenting a problem for them to solve. You used them as a strong back and didn't tap into their expertise. They gave you what you asked for; and IMO deserved. Time to eat some crow and have the job done right.
 
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#7
sissy kathy said:
A full length shim is almost never the answer to a problem. You told someone how to do their job instead of presenting a problem for them to solve. You used them as a strong back and didn't tap into their expertise. They gave you what you asked for; and IMO deserved. Time to eat some crow and have the job done right.
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I actually requested just a "full pocket shim", which could be tapered (as I desired) or flat (as was installed). My only specific request was that the shim (whether flat or tapered, left up to the discretion of the tech) would be full pocket, and not something like a piece of business card in the body end of the neck pocket. So no, I did not ask for what I got and I definitely don't deserve it; I've already arranged with my tech to have it altered at no additional cost and we both came to the conclusion that it was a misunderstanding. Please do double check what you post.
 
#10
Slater said:
If someone asked me for a “full pocket shim”, I would assume that it was to be level and not angled. Otherwise, there’s no need for the shim to be “full pocket”.
Also, as neck shims go, that one looks relatively thick.
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I'm not comfortable with the gap that comes about with the business card technique, so a change of neck angle would still warrant a full pocket shim, albeit wedge-shaped.
 
#11
Sometimes less is more. That's the reason a wedge shaped shim will work best vs raising up the entire neck. A smaller shim that is tapered thin on the neck end will have more effect than a big thick shim with no taper at all.
 
#12
bigmuffpotpi said:
I'm not comfortable with the gap that comes about with the business card technique, so a change of neck angle would still warrant a full pocket shim, albeit wedge-shaped.
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I'm not sure what makes you uncomfortable but a full pocket shim means getting less angle and more clearance than with the traditional, proof method, which is exactly what was achieved here. There is no other use for a full pocket shim, angled or not.
 
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#13
Jazz Ad said:
I'm not sure what makes you uncomfortable but a full pocket shim means getting less angle and more clearance than with the traditional, proof method, which is exactly what was achieved here. There is no other use for a full pocket shim, angled or not.
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Very thin angled full pocket shims are designed for a change in neck angle and not to add clearance.
 
#14
bigmuffpotpi said:
Very thin angled full pocket shims are designed for a change in neck angle and not to add clearance.
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Any shim will add to the clearance or the heel wouldn't end up higher. I understand your feeling desiring a full pocket tapered shim. If the Heel end is 2mm thick and the end of the pocket is 0 mm, you get the same result as a 2 mm tapered shim that is only 15 mm long but without the gap where the remainder of the shim could sit. That gap won't hurt anything though, the neck at that location is too thick to be affected by the screws or lack of support.
 
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#16
Badwater said:
Sometimes less is more. That's the reason a wedge shaped shim will work best vs raising up the entire neck. A smaller shim that is tapered thin on the neck end will have more effect than a big thick shim with no taper at all.
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In other words, as suggested earlier, you told the repair person how to do their job. It may be your preference, but that doesn't make it the correct solution.
 
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#17
1961 Jazz bass with factory installed shim made of p’up bobbin fiber at the heel. WHAT GAP?

Well ok there’s a tiny gap, if you really look hard, better than seeing an add on slab piece of wood all the way IMO
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#20
The OP is not alone on talkbass at not liking the idea of a partial shim. I'm not one of those people, but I would like to understand the concern. I also understand the disgust some have at the need for a shim at all, but sometimes luthiers just don't get the geometry quite right. So, is the aversion to a partial shim due to:

  • Cosmetics? (I don't like the idea of a possibly visible gap?)
  • Stability? (I'm concerned the neck will flex and warp due to the gap?)
  • Tone? (I'm concerned the reduced contact between neck and body will affect the way my bass sounds?)
  • Something else?
 
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