Flats for a not-so-medium-scale Kramer?

Bruiser Stone

Bruiser Stone

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Dec 7, 2017
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#1
I have a 33” scale Kramer with the forked metal 2+2 headstock, and I want to put on some new flats. The minimum/maximum winding lengths I measured for the E and G strings are 35.5/37” respectively.

This puts it in a narrow field of contenders that won’t (a) have silks extending below the nut, or (b) wrap the business part of the strings around the tuning pegs (which are rather small and require a very tight wrap).

I’ve measured the standard long Dunlop, GHS, Labella, and Rotosounds I have in my possession, and only the Dunlops were within range, right at 37”. I delightfully cut what I had from standard Fender length to fit my Kramer, and when installing the E, it broke just below the silk ($&@#!)

So, I know Dunlops are a maybe, but perhaps I need a lighter gauge, or a saddle adjustment to reduce the angle break.

Otherwise, what else is out there with a 35.5-37” winding? Most of the medium scale strings winding lengths are a bit short. I can confirm Labellas info on its website: E’s are 36.75” and the A/D/G’s are 38”. I’ve read GHS used to be 36.5”, but not anymore. My measurement seems to confirm this. I found this list, but I’m not sure this is recent: Bass and Guitar Strings, Amps and More from Fret Nation

Thx!
 
#4
SLaPiNFuNK said:
Ghs new length is 35.5 but that is cutting it close for your bass.

Most flats are going to be 37" and that shouldn't pose a problem.

What string broke? Daddario or Fender flats shouldn't have a problem on this bass.
Click to expand...

According to the Fret Nation link I included, the Dunlop long scales should be a longer winding length than GHS and Rotosound long scales, but the E/G silks on the Dunlops ended perfectly at the peg before the wrap around the peg...well...before the E broke. The others I put on the Kramer were about 1/4-3/4” too long.

Going by the link, Fenders do look to be about right if this is the current production measurement. Tonally, GHS sounds about where I want to be, but it would be cutting it close.
 
#7
SLaPiNFuNK said:
And even thought they are 37.25" they are more than flexible enough for this bass.
Click to expand...
I actually yanked my post when I reread and discovered that the string that broke was a Dunlop. But now I see that it was at the saddle, not the tuner, so now I'm not sure. I will say, though, that I've got a set going thru body and they've held up for a week and a half now :D
 
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#8
I muddled that with my saddle talk and the silks at both ends: it was on the tuner end just below the silk. After it broke, I wondered if I would also have a saddle issue given where it currently rests...I’ll probably adjust it a bit. But I like the Dunlops enough to use the A/D/G in the meantime and pull the E from the mystery strings that were on the Kramer when I bought it. It has the black silks at both ends like the Dunlops, but I just don’t think it’s the same brand. Or maybe it is and it’s just really broken in. And the speaking part wraps almost once around the E tuner unlike the one that broke, but it came that way with the bass so I dunno. Anyways, I’ll keep my eyes open for something else suitable in the future. Thx for the feedback so far. :thumbsup:
CA7A2AA7-6E7D-4314-9167-9700193D6A20.jpeg 04DDAB08-DAD2-4F86-92D8-F509EE5C9F75.jpeg4E206BAE-F7CF-4A51-8599-CC407D6C948A.jpeg562190C1-C4EF-4D6C-892C-7C9E70ABCB09.jpeg
 
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#9
The length from ball end to tuner must not be accurate based on these photos. The Dunlop strings are 37.25" and it looks like more than .25" of string is going around the post.

Please double check the lengths:

Ball End to Nut
Ball End to Tuning Post for the E-String (thickest string)
 
#10
I got set of custom length strings made by the Pyramid folks a few years ago, for a problem bass. They didn’t mind doing it and it cost the same as a set off the shelf would.
If you don’t like Pyramid flats, Labella are a similar smallish family business so might be worth asking if they’d do a set to the specs you need. Can’t hurt to try.
 
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#11
SLaPiNFuNK said:
The length from ball end to tuner must not be accurate based on these photos. The Dunlop strings are 37.25" and it looks like more than .25" of string is going around the post.

Please double check the lengths:

Ball End to Nut
Ball End to Tuning Post for the E-String (thickest string)
Click to expand...

I borrowed the E from the mystery set that was on the Kramer when I purchased it. That’s what is pictured on the tuning post now. It looks like a Dunlop, but I don’t think so based upon the string feel and its winding length.
7F198071-2470-4342-8273-330EC7FCC6AB.jpeg

I also took one of the Dunlop’s E string after it broke. I pulled it taut and measured it at 36 7/8.” But that was without tension. It snapped just before I had it tuned, and the silk ended exactly at the post.
8E1F5F26-B70C-4AA8-8355-0C51661E283A.jpeg

I guess there is some variance for all strings, but I agree that the measurement for the E I’ve borrowed isn’t even close to Dunlop’s specs.

But I’ll later click and share some pics with the tape measure on the bass just to make sure.
 
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#12
flatwound62p said:
I got set of custom length strings made by the Pyramid folks a few years ago, for a problem bass. They didn’t mind doing it and it cost the same as a set off the shelf would.
If you don’t like Pyramid flats, Labella are a similar smallish family business so might be worth asking if they’d do a set to the specs you need. Can’t hurt to try.
Click to expand...

Cool! I’ve read good things regarding Pyramid but have never had my fingers/ears on them. How would you describe them?
 
#13
SLaPiNFuNK said:
The length from ball end to tuner must not be accurate based on these photos. The Dunlop strings are 37.25" and it looks like more than .25" of string is going around the post.

Please double check the lengths:

Ball End to Nut
Ball End to Tuning Post for the E-String (thickest string)
Click to expand...

Here’s what I measured:
8997E86D-59D7-4FBE-84FD-220C787C08BA.jpeg BACFAC53-149D-4D30-B8E5-2636C8DDD956.jpeg

Is this correct?

And the more I play the mystery E next to the other 3 Dunlops, the more I think it is similar, even with the longer winding. Maybe Dunlop changed the length at some point (?) Whatever it is, they sound/feel fantastic together.
 
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#14
I am using long scale D'Addario chromes on my 32" bass with 14mm pegs without issue. I have had it strung with them for 2-3 years. I don't know if yours will be too narrow to make that work.
 
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#15
As someone who has played guitar over the years as well as bass, I'd suggest you check for burrs on the saddle....possible cause of breakage.

Insofar as length is concerned, remember to account for an additional .75" to one inch, if your bass is string through the body, depending on body thickness and how deep the ball ends sit in the ferrules.

As an example, I use Chromes almost exclusively. Most of my players are 33"scale. I can use standard length on string through the body basses with no silk problems but need to use medium scale on string through the bridge basses.

Hope this helps.

Koog.
 
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#18
micguy said:
I've owned a few metal necked Kramers in my time, and..was I unaware that they were 33 inch scale? I thought they were all 34's.
Click to expand...
Kramer 450B bass.jpg Yeah, I've never heard of a 33 inch Kramer, either. But, knowing what I know about the original company's penchant for doing whatever struck their fancy at that moment, I wouldn't be at all surprised that there's a few of them lurking around. In any case, you found the strings you like, so it's really a moot point, anyway..:thumbsup:
 
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#19
micguy said:
was I unaware that they were 33 inch scale?
Click to expand...

GIBrat51 said:
View attachment 3537477 Yeah, I've never heard of a 33 inch Kramer, either. But, knowing what I know about the original company's penchant for doing whatever struck their fancy at that moment, I wouldn't be at all surprised that there's a few of them lurking around. In any case, you found the strings you like, so it's really a moot point, anyway..:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Another thread prompted me to double-check the scale length: it’s actually 33.5” when measured from the zero fret, 34” from the nut. But it looks like a SS next to my P-bass.
 
#20
Bruiser Stone said:
Another thread prompted me to double-check the scale length: it’s actually 33.5” when measured from the zero fret, 34” from the nut. But it looks like a SS next to my P-bass.
Click to expand...

That makes me wonder if the bridge is in the right place. What’s the distance from the center of the zero fret to the center of the 12th fret?
 
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