Flatwounds and Hand Fatigue

[MrBKerth]

Hello All,
as a frequent lurker on Talkbass I buckled and bought flatwounds to give them a try about 6 months ago. They're Rotosound 77's on my AVRI '62 Jazz Bass (for my bands Zeppelin II cover shows), but I've found that I only get about halfway through the album before my plucking hand gets sore/fatigued.

On my other Jazz I have Rotosound 66's on it and have played 3 hour shows without any fatigue. I realize that there will obviously be setup differences, but they shouldn't be this significant (to my understanding).

Is this all in my head or is there something else like higher string tension at work here?

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

It isn't in your head at all. I had the same experience except it was both hands. I did some research.
Flats have much higher tension than rounds and therefore are much harder on the fingers. I know it is counter intuitive because you would think the smoother surface would be better.
I also found the Roto 77s, which I love the sound of, have some of the highest tension. I do know that different flats have different tensions and there are some specifically designed to have lower tension, but I can't recall which brands they are at the moment. Hopefully, someone will chime in with some suggestions. Or, maybe try searching in the Strings forum for some suggestions.

 

[40Hz]

Rotosound flats have a huge amount of tension compared to their roundwounds. IMO they feel like they're one of the highest tension flat sets out there

Try one of the flats that are low tension such as TI Jazz flats or LaBella's low tension flat set.

Setup is also important when switching to flats. You'll want to adjust your trussrod to accommodate the greater pull the strings exert when you're using flats most times.

 

[McFarlin]

Hello All,
as a frequent lurker on Talkbass I buckled and bought flatwounds to give them a try about 6 months ago. They're Rotosound 77's on my AVRI '62 Jazz Bass (for my bands Zeppelin II cover shows), but I've found that I only get about halfway through the album before my plucking hand gets sore/fatigued.

On my other Jazz I have Rotosound 66's on it and have played 3 hour shows without any fatigue. I realize that there will obviously be setup differences, but they shouldn't be this significant (to my understanding).

Is this all in my head or is there something else like higher string tension at work here?

I had a similar issue (in conjunction with bilateral acute tendonitis) using DR flatwounds, which most folks consider to be higher tension even for flats. But, from what I have read, the Rotos are among the highest tension flats.

You probably already considered this, but a big part of the equation could be technique. If you are all about aggressive plucking, doing it on those stiff strings will wear out a hand.

If you really like the Roto 77 tone, trying a lighter gauge (there are three options in the long scale set) and lowering your action will help.

Other options for lower tension, brighter flats:
-Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats (wouldn't go bigger than the .045-.100 set)
-Sadowsky Blue Label Flats (light gauge)
-Dunlop flats (according to the one existing thread)
-and possibly the lightest gauge D'Addario Chromes

Lower tension but, in my opinion, not as bright:
-TI Flats
-LaBella Low Tension Flats

Bright, but not so flexible:
Fender 9050CL
Larger gauge Chromes

Of the above strings I have only tried the EB cobalts, TIs, and the Fenders. So my list may not be entirely accurate and, as always, is subjective.

I think picking a lower tension or more flexible string will make you adjust to a lighter attack and make it easier to get through a long set. I used to dislike light gauge or low tension strings. Then, for some reason, I tried (for the second time) a set of TIs on a fairly stiff feeling bass (stiff compared to the average P or J). Just a little time with muscle memory and technique adjustment and everything works out great (except maybe aggressive playing with a pick).

 

[chris_b]

I use GHS precision flats with no issues.

Maybe the action on the OP's bass is high and a set up would help.

 

[armybass]

Take those damn things off your bass! Really there are much better sounding and playing flats. If you like the old school vibe LaBella 760FL's or the new LaBella Low Tension Flats are excellent. There are always TI's.. Chromes and many other strings that don't have the Golden Gate Tension that the 77's have. They have a cool sound but cant hang with that tension.... no way.

 

[RustyAxe]

Is this all in my head or is there something else like higher string tension at work here?

Higher tension, probably. But the problem isn't in your head, it's in your hands ... as in technique. If you're trying to muscle the music out of the strings, you're gonna have problems. Try playing with a lighter touch (and more gain).

 

[MrBKerth]

I use GHS precision flats with no issues.

Maybe the action on the OP's bass is high and a set up would help.

That was my first thought so I had a fret level and full setup by the same technician. The situation unfortunately didn't improve.

 

[MrBKerth]

Take those damn things off your bass! Really there are much better sounding and playing flats. If you like the old school vibe LaBella 760FL's or the new LaBella Low Tension Flats are excellent. There are always TI's.. Chromes and many other strings that don't have the Golden Gate Tension that the 77's have. They have a cool sound but cant hang with that tension.... no way.

I had always seen the LaBella name on here, but never had the opportunity to test any out. They are reputed to have less tension?

 

[michael_t]

I had always seen the LaBella name on here, but never had the opportunity to test any out. They are reputed to have less tension?

La Bella flats come in SIX different forms - Low Tension Flats (most flexible) all the way up to the "1954 Originals" (very high tension). It would all depend on the gauge selection as to how they feel.

What they all do have the reputation for is the "old-school vibe"; it's the classic sound from the 60's and 70's.

 

[IanA]

I find flats of the same gauge to be harder work than rounds.
I have just switched back from a set of Labella's to a set of XL nickels and the XL's feel so much easier to play on.
Still love the flats though

 

[Resonance129]

I'm no pro on flatwound strings, but I recently had some LaBella 1954 flats put on my Pbass and noticed the tension was extreme. Lots of hand fatigue (both left and right).
Had a setup done and the tension felt a lot better, but still required a lot more work than any other strings I'd played.

BUT, now that I've had them on my bass for a few weeks after the setup and have gotten used to the tension and feel of the flats, I kind of like it better than the different strings I've tried before. At least on the Pbass. My fretting hand is a bit stronger and my plucking hand is more precise.

Not to mention the sound... HUGE, BOOMY, ROUND bass sound. Even with the tone all the way up, it's a substantial bass sound, but with the tone off, the sound engulfs you. Resonates to your core lol. For some of the music I like to play, it's not the most appropriate sound, but I definitely enjoy sound I can get from flats.

 

[jallenbass]

Another reason may be that, being used to round wounds, you're unconsciously trying to get that sound and feel on the flats by playing harder with your right hand.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Hello All,
as a frequent lurker on Talkbass I buckled and bought flatwounds to give them a try about 6 months ago. They're Rotosound 77's on my AVRI '62 Jazz Bass (for my bands Zeppelin II cover shows), but I've found that I only get about halfway through the album before my plucking hand gets sore/fatigued.

On my other Jazz I have Rotosound 66's on it and have played 3 hour shows without any fatigue. I realize that there will obviously be setup differences, but they shouldn't be this significant (to my understanding).

Is this all in my head or is there something else like higher string tension at work here?

No - I find flatwounds less comfortable to play too - which is funny; When I was a kid (in the '70s) and made the switch from flats to rounds, it was NOT easy.

 

[AndyPanda]

what I liked about the roto 77 is that you can pluck up nearer the neck and still have the quickness (due to the stiffness of the string) that you get plucking down by the bridge on normal strings. And they have a unique sound that I like.

But I'm trying out TI jazz flats now and I'm liking them too - very different animals. But I wouldn't hesitate to go back to the Roto 77 either - I just pluck differently when I'm on the 77s

 

[GranSportMan]

I use Labella flats and they are great. Sounds like you need to check out a few different strings.

 

[pbass2]

I'm no pro on flatwound strings, but I recently had some LaBella 1954 flats put on my Pbass and noticed the tension was extreme. Lots of hand fatigue (both left and right).
Had a setup done and the tension felt a lot better, but still required a lot more work than any other strings I'd played.

BUT, now that I've had them on my bass for a few weeks after the setup and have gotten used to the tension and feel of the flats, I kind of like it better than the different strings I've tried before. At least on the Pbass. My fretting hand is a bit stronger and my plucking hand is more precise.

Not to mention the sound... HUGE, BOOMY, ROUND bass sound. Even with the tone all the way up, it's a substantial bass sound, but with the tone off, the sound engulfs you. Resonates to your core lol. For some of the music I like to play, it's not the most appropriate sound, but I definitely enjoy sound I can get from flats.

The '54s are super high tension! I've used them, and gone through various Labella gauges over the years. I find I get essentially the same sound with their lighter gauges, and it's not such a workout.

 

[Resonance129]

The '54s are super high tension! I've used them, and gone through various Labella gauges over the years. I find I get essentially the same sound with their lighter gauges, and it's not such a workout.

After I put the 1954's on, I almost trashed em and went back for the lighter, lower tension version. But I'm glad I didn't. I've gotten to the point where I kinda like the tension of these strings. And my action is pretty good and low.
I'll have to look up some of the other types of flats (Did NOT like D'Addario Chromes), but for now, these are my go-to PBass strings.

 

[mngnt]

I have issues with my right hand and flats (TIs). It's not the tension, but the additional surface area. Sometimes it's fine, but other times they feel almost tacky and it throws my timing. I expected it to go away, but hasn't after months... Perhaps it's my skin.

I do find the "nose grease" trick works though, maybe give that a shot.

 

[Engle]

La Bella flats come in SIX different forms - Low Tension Flats (most flexible) all the way up to the "1954 Originals" (very high tension). It would all depend on the gauge selection as to how they feel.

What they all do have the reputation for is the "old-school vibe"; it's the classic sound from the 60's and 70's.

When I started playing upright bass, I put a set of 1954 originals on my (sort of) P Bass. I didn't think the high tension would bother me. They sounded great and it was all fine until I played a 3.5 hour wedding gig...