Flatwounds for live performances difficult?

Venomax

Venomax

May 19, 2019
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#1
I just slapped on a brand new set of Ernie Ball custom gauge flats on my previously round wound strung jazz bass. After two or so gigs (in a basketball court-sized environment), I noticed that I wasn't getting a clear cut through the mix and the drums or the guitars would bury some of my fills and slapping became somehow harder since I could feel the higher tension and stiffness of the strings as well as the more dull sound (as to be expected of flats really).

I only have a combo 100 amp with EQ (3-band) mostly emphasizing bass and treble really (but not really fully scooped). Anyway how else could I make my current setup better sounding in live gigs as I have an upcoming gig in a respectively larger environment but with a 300 combo amp this time that is connected to the mixing board and output through the PA?
 
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#4
Venomax said:
I just slapped on a brand new set of Ernie Ball custom gauge flats on my previously round wound strung jazz bass. After two or so gigs (in a basketball court-sized environment), I noticed that I wasn't getting a clear cut through the mix and the drums or the guitars would bury some of my fills and slapping became somehow harder since I could feel the higher tension and stiffness of the strings as well as the more dull sound (as to be expected of flats really).

I only have a combo 100 amp with EQ (3-band) mostly emphasizing bass and treble really (but not really fully scooped). Anyway how else could I make my current setup better sounding in live gigs as I have an upcoming gig in a respectively larger environment but with a 300 combo amp this time that is connected to the mixing board and output through the PA?
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With flats thou shalt not "cut the mix"
Thou shalt be a pillow of fat bass support.

:thumbsup:
 
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#9
Mushroo said:
When I sound bad, I take lessons until I sound good.
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well, no doubt lessons can help greatly but in my case the "bad sound" is more on a personal perspective wherein the difference my new strings were giving me from my old set of rounds is the thing here and I may be in a point of adjustment right now but I'm just wondering what I could alter a bit in my settings or stuff to improve live sound
 
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#10
Right, so if you want a free bass lesson then post a video, so we can tell you what you're doing wrong. I can't tell you what to adjust without hearing you. If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say it's probably something you're doing with the fingers on your left and/or right hand. :)
 
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#11
Well here's something I recorded a few months ago just after getting the flats (my playing on this one especially on some parts plus the sound quality sound pretty oof but anyway...) :

And yeah I'm self-taught and more on the intermediate level, really not noob but not at all fantastic :)

I love busy playing also for some reason and my tendencies to do so sometimes throw me off from the entire feel of the songs I play but yeah...
 
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#12
Emphasize the mids instead of lows and treble on your 3-band eq.

Don’t set your amp or instrument settings at home and expect those to work in a band mix. What sounds good at home by yourself doesn’t work on a stage with drums and guitar amps. Again, mids are your friend when trying to be heard in a band mix.

A 100 or even 300 watt combo amp may not be enough power in a big venue, especially depending on what amplification your band members are using.

Playing with flats may require you to change your finger technique on your left and/or right hand, so a lesson with a good teacher could also help.
 
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#13
SLO Surfer said:
Emphasize the mids instead of lows and treble on your 3-band eq.

Don’t set your amp or instrument settings at home and expect those to work in a band mix. What sounds good at home by yourself doesn’t work on a stage with drums and guitar amps. Again, mids are your friend when trying to be heard in a band mix.

A 100 or even 300 watt combo amp may not be enough power in a big venue, especially depending on what amplification your band members are using.

Playing with flats may require you to change your finger technique on your left and/or right hand, so a lesson with a good teacher could also help.
Click to expand...
good advice I may try considering the next time around
 
#14
Dude that sounds **** amazing, you have a very articulate flatwound tone that cuts through the mix, to my ear! Nice job. :)

So the main challenge, really, is how to translate that great tone into live gigs, when you have to play in basketball-court type acoustics. It sounds like you are already rolling your jazz bass toward the bridge pickup, which is a good start. Another thing that can help is to slightly cut the bass frequencies on your amp, and maybe boost the mids a little bit. Do you have access to any pedals or effects? The two effects that I find can really help in a live mix are a compressor and a high pass filter (HPF). But you want to coordinate with the sound guy. He might be putting a compressor and HPF on your bass track, too, and you don't want to be stepping on each other's toes, applying two different versions of the same effect.

Really though you are totally on the right track and sound great. Sorry that I doubted you!
 
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#15
Sometimes traditional flats have trouble cutting through on two pickup basses ESPECIALLY if you are using both pickups together which scoops the tone. Modern flats with more mid-range content like TIs, Chromes, Cobalts, etc. can really help on a jazz bass if being heard in a dense mix is your priority. If that sound clip is typically what you play like you might also benefit from a more modern flat that has more clarity and a quicker response which can help the nuances of busier/more staccato playing be heard more clearly. There have of course been many great tracks recorded with a Jazz Bass and Labellas or something similar, but alot of that was old school R&B or music where the bass only had to compete with 1 guitar and a drummer plus vocals (Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin).
 
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#17
Plenty of things to try.

1. Move your right hand closer to the bridge than you would with rounds.

2. Pluck the strings with more "snap"...not playing harder just a sharper attack.

3. Experiment with the mid EQ on your amp, if it's voiced high enough (around 1K, like the high mid band on a GK) boosting it will help.

4. Get brighter sounding flats, not all sound the same (see below).

5. Dial in more of the bridge pickup on your J and open up the tone control if it's not already wide open.

6. Don't expect slapping flats to sound anything like slapping rounds.

FWIW I have EB stainless flats on two P basses, they've been on around 20 years, I don't even wipe them down after a gig. The P with the medium gauge set has aged to the mythical dull thump while the light gauge set is still twangy and bright. This can be heard even unplugged.
 
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#18
As for cutting through the mix, don't we really want to sit well in the mix and make everyone else, i.e., the whole band, sound better? Unless you are Marcus Miller or Victor Wooten, of course. If we really want to cut through the mix and be heard crystal clear, maybe the bass is the wrong instrument and the saxophone would be a better choice? I may be wrong, but I feel my role in my band is to work with the drummer and make the people feel the groove and want to tap their feet along to the music.
 
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#19
As for flatwounds, if you really need to poke out of the mix, maybe a set of roundwounds, preferably steel, would be better. You will need sparkly highs as the mids will probably be well covered by all the other instruments in the band.
 
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