Fretless buzz — first "fret" only

scubaduba

scubaduba

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#1
First off, yes I've searched for this topic. In general, I am pretty good at setting up basses. I recently acquired a new fretless 5-string (B E A D G) with dual truss rods and I'm struggling with a buzz on the first "fret" of the E string and A string (and sometimes D string). B and G are fine. I don't feel any bumps or indentations; the fretboard seems true and planed evenly. First inclination was to give more relief (less tension) from the truss rods which I did. Really it doesn't make any difference. I'd like to get the neck even a bit more flat... but can't due to the buzzing. If it weren't for the buzzing at the first fret area I could get the action even lower. It shouldn't be a nut issue correct? In other words, the nut height shouldn't really affect the first fret area. Right now the nut height is such that the open strings ring true.

Since it is a dual truss rod system I've tried just adjusting one of the two sides (left trust rod for the E string and A string buzzing) and right side for the A string and sometimes D string buzzing.

I'm sort of a perfectionist when it comes to these kinds of things and like to keep working at it till I get it right. Any thoughts on what else I should try?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
#2
I'd say the first inclination should be raising the bridge saddles not touching the trussrod.
The angle between string and fretboard changes as you fret at different positions (no matter what shape the neck is in, curved or perfectly flat). Because of this, you naturally get different amount of overtones and sustain at different positions (variation in string amplitude is also a factor but that is nothing unique to fretless bass). Setting up a fretless means a compromise between tone in the lower and upper positions and the string height with the most resonance "on average" across the fretboard is usually not the extremely low height many people here recommend for fretless basses, even though it might be easier to play.
 
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#3
Darn. Your answer is what I was hopefully avoiding. Bummer, I just don't want to raise the saddles. I like very low action on my basses.... and I feel like I have already given the neck enough relief and trying to avoid raising saddles. I like how easy it is to play right now except for the darn buzz on the first fret area.
 
#4
Just try it with higher action for a few weeks and see if you can get used to it (maybe get lighter gauge/tension strings to compensate, especially the E and A).
Might be a bit harder to play but IMO the control you have over the tone of each individual note and the dynamics you can achieve with your fingers with that kind of setup are definitely worth it.
...for reference
 
#7
Yep, I agree. You've got a small high spot on the fingerboard surface, probably around the 2nd-3rd position. If you slide a note up, where does the buzz stop? That's the crest of the hill. The lower the action, and the less relief, the more perfectly true the surface has to be to keep the buzz even.
 
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#8
scubaduba said:
I'm struggling with a buzz on the first "fret"
Click to expand...
i have one instrument with same/similar issues as the OP. it's a 4 string: all the strings buzz or even 'stop' at the first 'fret' on this fretless if attempting a lowered string setup.
Turnaround said:
Sure sounds to me like a bit of unevenness in the fingerboard. With low action a bit of unevenness the thickness of a piece of paper can cause really nasty results.
Click to expand...
exactly what i figured. is it time to get out the fingerboard radius sanding block?

Lownote38 said:
Exactly what I was thinking. If a fretless neck is planed perfectly, the action can be super low and the neck super straight, but even the slightest imperfection will cause a buzz somewhere.
Click to expand...
i'm getting that...but:
Bruce Johnson said:
Yep, I agree. You've got a small high spot on the fingerboard surface, probably around the 2nd-3rd position. If you slide a note up, where does the buzz stop? That's the crest of the hill. The lower the action, and the less relief, the more perfectly true the surface has to be to keep the buzz even.
Click to expand...
my buzzing stops at the next note up: e.g., A string buzzes at Bb, but is fine at B (same with the other strings = fine at the next half note up). i was thinking that instead of a high spot up the fingerboard it is a low spot at or before the first 'fret'. right? (i wouldn't be surprised either way!)

thanks in advance for your time and thoughts. :thumbsup:
 
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#9
Well, yeah, it may be a low spot just before the 1st, or it could be a high spot just after the 1st. Same thing, depending on how you look at it. I think of the problems as the high spots, because the fix is to trim down the hills. It's much harder to build up a valley.

We have plenty of threads here on TB about truing up fretless fingerboards. Some in nauseating detail. You can do it yourself, but it takes some patience and understanding of what you are doing.
 
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#10
Im not saying this is the solution but being that its a used bass, might the grooves in the nut be so worn that its causing a buzz on that end. Ive had this issue with a couple of old basses I've worked on were a shim under the nut fixed that problem. Something to consider
 
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#11
primusfan1989 said:
Im not saying this is the solution but being that its a used bass, might the grooves in the nut be so worn that its causing a buzz on that end. Ive had this issue with a couple of old basses I've worked on were a shim under the nut fixed that problem. Something to consider
Click to expand...

In the OP:
"Right now the nut height is such that the open strings ring true."
 
#12
I've found too MUCH relief causes the most Buzzing ! Straighten the Neck so there is very little relief, almost perfectly straight,and then raise or lower the saddles to get the desired action. Keep in mind Nut Height/Adjustment is Critical. If the neck is close to totally straight with just the proper amount of relief, and any or all of the open strings buzz, the nut is too low, of course.
My 2 cents, 3 years later :)
 
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