Frets have been grinded... how to remove what's left?

#2
God save us All from hack "fretless" conversions. Here's a video of a Luthier trying to address that exact scenario on a Rickenbacker bass. Do-able, but not for the faint of heart, and expect some chip-out at best. He uses a ruler to try to limit the chip-out but a set of the Stewmac chip stoppers might work better. If you aren't comfortable with what he has to do here, take it to a Pro. Hopefully one of our resident Pros will weigh-in if there is a better way to do this. This one was worse because the neck was bound, which I assume yours is not.



Chip Stoppers, Set of 2 - StewMac
 
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#3
Flint222 said:
Hi gang!

I have a 2002 Fender P-Bass that was "converted" to fretless by a previous owner. The conversion itself was done by grinding the top of the frets leaving only the tang in the rosewood board.

Any ideas on how I could remove what's left in order to refret it completly afterward?

Thanks!
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I believe you have an unbound board?

If so you may be able to insert a small piece of shim and drive the tang sideways enough for it to protrude from the other side, enough that you can then lift the tang starting from that end. This sounds impossible, but Fender pushed frets in from the side for many years, so they will displace to the side with force. The tang may buckle upward enough to get a grip on it, even if it doesn't skew sideways in the slot.

Before trying any method of removing the fret tang, it should be thoroughly heated to help break any bond with the tang slot. This can be done by modifying a cheap soldering gun so two "tips" can be placed directly against the remaining tang section. A few seconds of trigger actuation will cause the tang to get really hot. You can see this done at Frank Ford's Frets.com website.

Even if the board is bound this technique will cause the fret to loosen enough that you should be able to carefully lift one end. As long as you don't damage the board where it will be covered by the new fret crown you should be O.K.
 
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#7
Oyyy....Yeah, I had to perform one of those "fretless tang extractions" once. I ground up a special tool for the job. A short length of 1/4" steel rod, or maybe it was a bolt. I ground the two sides of the end into a narrow blade, about 0.020" wide. Then ground the end of the blade to a steep angle. Basically making a skinny wedge, the same width as the fret slot. You could probably also use an Xacto knife handle and an old blade. Grind off the cutting edge, leaving a thin blade wedge in a handle.

Stick the point of the wedge in the end of the slot, going under the fret tang. A light hammer tap to drive the wedge in under the fret tang, and it popped right up. It was a long time ago, but I seem to remember that it worked quite well. Minimal damage to the fingerboard.
 
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#9
ardgedee said:
I should bookmark this thread for the next time somebody asks what's wrong with making a fretless by grinding down the frets.
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Seriously. Not only this, but also, it just seems like grinding down the frets without also grinding down the wood and not having the tangs sticking up is more work than properly pulling them out in the first place. :bored:
 
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#10
Just gonna butt-in for a sec here, OP. I hope you don't mind!

Gilmourisgod said:
God save us All from hack "fretless" conversions. Here's a video of a Luthier trying to address that exact scenario on a Rickenbacker bass. Do-able, but not for the faint of heart, and expect some chip-out at best. He uses a ruler to try to limit the chip-out but a set of the Stewmac chip stoppers might work better. If you aren't comfortable with what he has to do here, take it to a Pro. Hopefully one of our resident Pros will weigh-in if there is a better way to do this. This one was worse because the neck was bound, which I assume yours is not.



Chip Stoppers, Set of 2 - StewMac
Click to expand...

Wow I feel so bad for this guy who had to go in and work on that abomination of a job. Who in their right mind would do such a job, that poor Ric looks so messed up!

Bruce Johnson said:
Oyyy....Yeah, I had to perform one of those "fretless tang extractions" once. I ground up a special tool for the job. A short length of 1/4" steel rod, or maybe it was a bolt. I ground the two sides of the end into a narrow blade, about 0.020" wide. Then ground the end of the blade to a steep angle. Basically making a skinny wedge, the same width as the fret slot. You could probably also use an Xacto knife handle and an old blade. Grind off the cutting edge, leaving a thin blade wedge in a handle.

Stick the point of the wedge in the end of the slot, going under the fret tang. A light hammer tap to drive the wedge in under the fret tang, and it popped right up. It was a long time ago, but I seem to remember that it worked quite well. Minimal damage to the fingerboard.
Click to expand...
My condolences to you, it sounds and (from that video above) looks like a complete PITA to do. I do not think I would have had the patience to do that kind of restoration :smug:

FullumMusic said:
Seriously. Not only this, but also, it just seems like grinding down the frets without also grinding down the wood and not having the tangs sticking up is more work than properly pulling them out in the first place. :bored:
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Whoever did that job clearly did not use a lot of grey matter to think this thru. I seriously am struggling to see what the heck was the point. Like you said, more work and for a really, really bad effect. That is so confusing to me. Just... why o_O
 
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#11
Katoosie said:
Whoever did that job clearly did not use a lot of grey matter to think this thru. I seriously am struggling to see what the heck was the point. Like you said, more work and for a really, really bad effect. That is so confusing to me. Just... why o_O
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I forget which comedian said it, maybe George Carlin, maybe Bill Hicks, maybe someone else, but it basically went: "Think of how dumb the average person is, and then realize that half of all people are dumber than that." :roflmao:
I had a teacher in middle-school once say, "One of the most difficult things for an intelligent person to understand is why a stupid person does the things they do."

I personally have low expectations for humans using their little grey cells, and they still undershoot my low expectations.

I feel the Fret-ripper-outer of this bass exemplifies all these statements. :D (Hopefully they're not on TB.) :angel:

Not that i'm not also guilty of doing bonehead things too.:roflmao:
 
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#12
It couldn't hurt either to brace the body down in a way where you could also bow the neck backwards, effectively trying your best to "open up" the slots. Nothing crazy, just enough to hopefully reduce some tension being exerted on the tangs.

Good luck with the project, it sounds like it's worth doing to make this bass functional.
 
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#14
FullumMusic said:
Seriously. Not only this, but also, it just seems like grinding down the frets without also grinding down the wood and not having the tangs sticking up is more work than properly pulling them out in the first place. :bored:
Click to expand...

Or just buy a fretless neck. Or in this case a fretted neck. You could then properly finish the defretted neck & have both.
 
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#15
TN WOODMAN said:
Or just buy a fretless neck.
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Right? I'm one of those people who enjoys doing the modification as a fun project even if there's an easier way, like buying a fretless neck. But, like, if i'm gonna do the project for the enjoyment in doing the project, i'm gonna do it as well as i can, because doing a project well is part of the fun of it. If i'm just gonna hack it, i can just buy a fretless neck and be done with it. The price would probably be a wash compared to the time and tools and effort needed to do a poor job doing it the wrong way.
 
#17
To whoever did this savage deed: You should never ever touch an instrument again. You are unworthy of the grinder and tools you wield.

But seriously....good luck! It will be difficult to fix this and I hope you end up with a good end result.
 
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#18
I know this is luthiers corner.

But isn't the best result in this situation in terms of time spent and money to just swap the neck on this 2002 P-bass?

You don't really know what you'll get on a refret of a hack conversion. It's not a vintage instrument, there is no value to restore. It takes an extra amount of labor (above and beyond a normal fret job because this was done horribly originally).

Just get a P-Bass neck with frets and swap.

And leave the hack job for when 2002 P-basses are a collectors item.
 
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#19
Gilmourisgod said:
God save us All from hack "fretless" conversions. Here's a video of a Luthier trying to address that exact scenario on a Rickenbacker bass. Do-able, but not for the faint of heart, and expect some chip-out at best. He uses a ruler to try to limit the chip-out but a set of the Stewmac chip stoppers might work better. If you aren't comfortable with what he has to do here, take it to a Pro. Hopefully one of our resident Pros will weigh-in if there is a better way to do this. This one was worse because the neck was bound, which I assume yours is not.



Chip Stoppers, Set of 2 - StewMac
Click to expand...


Yet, another Canadian luthier.
 
#20
FullumMusic said:
I forget which comedian said it, maybe George Carlin, maybe Bill Hicks, maybe someone else, but it basically went: "Think of how dumb the average person is, and then realize that half of all people are dumber than that." :roflmao:
I had a teacher in middle-school once say, "One of the most difficult things for an intelligent person to understand is why a stupid person does the things they do."

I personally have low expectations for humans using their little grey cells, and they still undershoot my low expectations.

I feel the Fret-ripper-outer of this bass exemplifies all these statements. :D (Hopefully they're not on TB.) :angel:

Not that i'm not also guilty of doing bonehead things too.:roflmao:
Click to expand...



Now take that and add dog-with-bone determination. My candid first mental reaction to this thread: What kind of #@$%ing moron would...

marjorie-taylor-greene-pull-up.gif


:eek: We may yet see what kind of spectacle this combo can create sometime around June. What interesting times...
 
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