Double Bass from 3/4 to 1/2 size

[sidonbass]

Just a thought. I've been playing a 3/4 upright for years and am happy with my bass. The problem is my little finger has developed arthritis in the second joint, resulting in pain and swelling. I have kept it wrapped for a few years, when gigging or practicing. Its helped but now it starting to get worse. The pain happens with octave stretches in the 1/2 position and 1st position. Im curious to know if the shorter scale length on a 1/2 size would help, since the stretch would be less of a stretch. I think the scale length is a couple of inches shorter. Of course, the answer is try one and see, but that wont be easy. I am going to NYC next month, so maybe I can find one there to try.
What ya think?

 

[KenD]

Aside from the playability issue, what happens to the tonal quality with a reduced body volume?

I'm not a DB player; just an appreciative listener and when I hear a DB tone that I really like it's in large part because of the resonance of the body.

 

[Don Hergert]

@sidonbass , your years of experience probably has already given you the answer, but most talk around here is that as you scale down from 3/4, your acoustic volume diminishes noticeably. Clearly, lots of people have discussed ways to use smaller double basses or other smaller instruments because in standard sizes double basses are impractical in so many ways, but there's always the tradeoff in sound. If there was a smaller alternative to do the same thing acoustically as with a 4/4 or 3/4 double bass, many of us here would be using it.

As a relative double bass newbie who also deals with arthritis in my hands, the answer for me -- in addition to continuous personal physical therapy -- was to select strings and adjust setup for easier playing, and to learn better posture especially for my left hand. You've probably already done most of that as it is acceptable to your playing situation, but for other readers who are dealing with similar situations, here are some setup things to try while staying with a standard size double bass:

1) lower tension strings
2) fatter strings
3) lower action *
4) proper nut setup *
5) proper fingerboard relief for the strings being used *

* May require an experienced double bass luthier to do this work properly

After doing that, for me the biggest improvement was learning a better left hand posture which doesn't require a lot of bending of finger joints.

Those choices are really why I can still play my 3/4 double bass today, as well as I'm able anyway .

For a person who loves and plays musical instruments, having hand related disabilities can be pretty scary, but the hands and the mind can really be pretty flexible when it comes to finding alternative ways to continue. Personally I've been surprised at some of the adaptations my hands can accomplish. There is lots of history of famous musicians who have found creative ways to make remarkable music with less than perfect hands.

Best of luck with all this!

-- Don

 

[turf3]

Before committing to a different instrument, I'd contract for some lessons with an experienced teacher. Bad habits can creep into our playing without us realizing it. There may be some things you can retrain that would help.

 

[dperrott]

A couple things make the bass easier or harder on the left hand. The main thing is how much scoop or camber is in the board? A heavily scooped board will tire out your left hand. What is your string length? I'm not sure if a shorter string length would be helpful or not but you should know your numbers. String length and bass body size can vary drastically, for instance in my sale inventory I have a 3/4 bass with a 40 1/4 string length.

 

[GretschWretch]

Standard mensure for a 1/2 bass is 38"; for a 1/4, 35.25 inches. Even with a 1/4 you still would have to do a certain amount of stretching in 1/2 and 1st positions, and you would be sacrificing both volume and some bass in the harmonic spectrum. And the type of music you play also affects instrument choice. Classical, bluegrass, traditional country, and jazz all but require a 3/4. Less mainstream genres can be more flexible.

 

[damonsmith]

This is a very reasonable situation to look for an instrument with a shorter scale. As David says there are a lot of small 3/4s around. That could do it. I would also move to lower tension stings, probably Spiro solos at regular pitch. There are also 5/8 basses around. Go to a couple of shops on you NYC trip.

 

[Lee Moses]

String length and bass body size can vary drastically, for instance in my sale inventory I have a 3/4 bass with a 40 1/4 string length.

This is what I was going to say. I would focus on string length rather than fractional size.

 

[Derek Kay]

Arthritis is a degenerative disease, probably a lifestyle disease. Our modern diet is so sugar/salt/fat dominated, and processed food has less natural micronutrients. We sucessfully evolved as hunter/gatherers, eating a huge variety of fresh foods.

Before you commit to a major change I suggest you look for deficiencies in your diet, particularly mineral deficiencies. It costs little.

My deficiency was Zinc (Zn). Supplements solved that. When I stop taking Zn my problems slowly return.

Males often suffer Zn deficiencies, hence the generalisation that seafood promotes male vitality.

 

[Ludwig]

Stretching still needed with smaller basses. If only the little finger is affected, you could try to avoid the finger with more shifting and using only the pointer and middle finger in the lowest positions. Or just use only the ring finger without the little finger and add a small pivot in the hand to get that finger to the correct position.

 

[Ric Vice]

My Mirecourt Bass is a 5/8ths. The mensur,is 40” so it’s possibly longer than what’s commonly on smaller basses. The neck profile quite thin which makes it very comfortable to play. My guess is that among a group of 5/8th basses you’ll find a lot of variation in mensur, neck profile and radius. Just my take however.

 

[dperrott]

My Mirecourt Bass is a 5/8ths. The mensur is 40” so it’s possibly longer than what’s commonly on smaller basses. The neck profile quite thin which makes it very comfortable to play. My guess is that among a group of 5/8th basses you’ll find a lot of variation in mensur, neck profile and radius. Just my take however.I

I love an open peg box. Could you pm me some pics? If I ever finish my neck/bass its going to be an open peg box

 

[RSBBass]

A couple of ideas: lower tension strings, a setup, re fingering to avoid problems. I also would suggest getting a doctor to look at it in case it is something other than arthritis.

 

[Ric Vice]

I love an open peg box. Could you pm me some pics? If I ever finish my neck/bass its going to be an open peg box

Sure, just a note they are great for the ease of changing strings. Unfortunately, mine had to be repaired once, fortunately for me the damage was above any of the structurally critical locations on the neck. I was extremely fortunate.

 

[jj.833]

My son, now 10, plays small basses. So I had the opportunity myself to play 1/8, 1/4, 1/2. All were new(ish), of the same construction and probably from the same Hora factory - Thomann carved basses under 2000€. Compared to my 100 years old carved Czech 3/4, they are all less boomy, more pronounced in the mids than I'm used to, but actually sounding quite nice and I'm sure would be very suitable for amplified pizzicato. If I were to compare how the sound changes depending on size 1/8 to 1/2 and guessing 3/4, I would suggest these observations:
1. The smaller bass is generally more or less of very similar loudness in mid and high frequencies, played mezzoforte with a bow.
2. The smaller the bass, the less low end it can acoustically produce.
3. The smaller the bass, the lower its 'dynamic range' or 'respond to right hand bow techniques' (meaning that you find limits of the bass expressions with the bow sooner with the small bass).
4. Judging by the feel, the difference of sizes is about 'half tone' - fingering half position on 1/2 would be similar to first position on 3/4.
5. The neck is also thinner with smaller size of the bass, which makes the 'open hand' (the stretch between fingers and thumb) smaller, and the 'Rabbath pivots' easier.
6. With the basses I had in hand, I feel that the sound difference between sizes is not so great that it would necessarilly prevail the quality of build. Good 1/2 would sound better than average 3/4.

I know there are orchestral players preferring 1/2. It is possible to get 1/2 with big sound, even old carved bass, but these are quite rare and therefore more expensive.

All the talk about sound quality and massivness of the sound, in my opinion, concerns orchestral bow playing mostly, where you want the big strong acoustic sound. If you are a jazz player playing mostly pizz and amplified, I think you can safely suppose that you'll find suitable 1/2 quite easily.

With all this said, I'd throw in the last bit, and I apologise in case it's too trivial. Newer methods of bass pedagogy generally avoid finger stretching, preferring pivoting the rested hand on a flexible thumb. It doesn't help always - sometimes you have to stretch - but most of the painful stretching can be avoided in most situations. There's a lot to learn about this topic in Chris Fitzgerald youtube videos such as this one, and of course in books by Rabbath or Vance. As always, better technique helps tremendously and may save your playing for many more years.