From loud amps to headphone rehearsals? Help needed !

[Rev. Cornelius]

Thanks to all in advance.


I am currently in a band that rehearses at volume. Not stupid loud “Deep Purple” volume, but loud enough. We also have the ability to record 16 tracks live and frequently use 15 of them. We accomplish this with a Focusrite Octo Pre and a Focusrite 18i8 into a Windows 7 Pro computer running Reaper. We consist of drums-11 tracks, bass-2 tracks, guitar-1 track, and vocals-1 track. This is just for recording rehearsals. Mixing, overdubs, track doubling, etc. comes later.

We also have 2 Mackie 1604 vlz mixing boards. Only one is currently used to rout audio outs from the computer and as a preamp channel for an acoustic guitar.

So here’s the big question: Without losing the ability to record as we do, what do we need convert from loud amps (bass and guitar) and vocal (PA) and drums to a headphone rehearsal? I know we will not be silent with an acoustic set of drums. We can however set some isolatation between the drums and the rest of the band. We are rebuilding the basement and will have a separate vocal booth and guitar cabinet booth to drastically reduce apparent volume. Mic cables will run through the walls for these rooms with cannon connections wall mounted.

The headphone amp I am thinking about is a Presonus HP 60. So, if we convert the Focusrite 18i8 to an 18i20, we have an additional 8 direct outputs to add to the 8 direct outs of the Octo-pre. If I put those direct outs into the Mackie’s inputs, I can make sub-mixes for sending to the headphone amp.

Is this a correct way to do this? Are there better ways with an acoustic drum set? Comments, suggestions?


Thanks,


Rev C

 

[lakefx]

The way you're thinking about this should work fine. The more "traditional" way of doing this is to plug everything into the board and use an insert snake to then send those signals to the recording device. Since the preamps on your Focusrite are probably better than on the Mackie, you'll get better recordings with your method.

My band has recently gone through this process and I decided to replace my Tascam US-1800 and Ramsa analog board with a Behringer X18 that could do double duty as an interface and live board. The routing options in the Behringer have made the process of switching between headphone rehearsal, recording, overdubbing, and mixing super easy.

 

[Rev. Cornelius]

Thanks.

Here are some pics of the basement framing. I will be able to use the bathroom and the closet under the stairs for isolation.

 

[EastCoastThump]

The headphone amp I am thinking about is a Presonus HP 60. So, if we convert the Focusrite 18i8 to an 18i20, we have an additional 8 direct outputs to add to the 8 direct outs of the Octo-pre. If I put those direct outs into the Mackie’s inputs, I can make sub-mixes for sending to the headphone amp.

You could do this with hardware, but won't Reaper let you create aux tracks and send those to the Focusrite's outputs? You can set up those DAW auxes as individual headphones mixes, then send them either as mono or stereo pairs to your interface and from there directly to your headphone amp(s).

If you have a lot of musicians and outputs on your interface are limited, then the Presonus headphone amp you're considering allows you to blend one (or two) shared stereo mixes with individual "more me" signals. In this scenario, you could send a basic stereo band aux mix from DAW-->interface-->headphone amp, then use mono aux sends to feed mono "more me" inputs (via DAW aux) into the musicians' individual headphone channels on the HP 60. The "more me" signals could also come from splits directly from pedalboards, keys, etc if output connections from your interface are at a premium.

A few tips:

• Some DAWs will let you rename those aux mixes on screen. That makes it much easier to keep track of what's going where.
  
• Set up and test the basic routing and aux mixes outside of rehearsal.
  
• Once you have your routing and basic mixes set, save a blank session in your DAW as a template and use that to open new sessions.

 

[Rev. Cornelius]

Thanks.

I am not sure that there are enough outputs on the interface to accomplish this direct from Reaper. I am sure that Reaper could handle the sub-mix sends, but I will have to look at the interface. We will need 4-6 sub-mix outputs (for the "more me") plus a stereo pair all feeding the headphone amp.

I like the hardware version of this solution because I hate to dick around in Reaper while rehearsing (and recording). It is much more simple for me to leave Reaper alone once the recording levels are set and just turn the "more me" knob up or down as needed in the headphone mix.

However, I will look at the interfaces capability. If the analog outputs 3-10 are assignable through the interface, this may eliminate the Mackie boards completely. That would be a good thing!

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Rev.C

 

[EastCoastThump]

I am sure that Reaper could handle the sub-mix sends, but I will have to look at the interface. We will need 4-6 sub-mix outputs (for the "more me") plus a stereo pair all feeding the headphone amp.

That interface should give you 8 assignable outs, + the optical outs if you add an external D/A interface. If you have 4 musicians, a basic stereo mix + 4 assignable "more me" outputs on the Focusrite will cover you. (Or go w/ 1 stereo mix set for the main vocalist + 3 "more me" for the other players.) You don't say how many musicians, so if you're mixing Snarky Puppy, this obviously leaves you short about 20 headphones mixes. But you should be covered for a basic 4-5 piece band.

I like the hardware version of this solution because I hate to dick around in Reaper while rehearsing (and recording). It is much more simple for me to leave Reaper alone once the recording levels are set and just turn the "more me" knob up or down as needed in the headphone mix. ... Thoughts?

Whether hardware or software aux mix, one key is to dial in players' amp/DI gain gain structures—and then keep them consistent from song to song, day to day. If you use DAW aux mixes, it doesn't change your main mix—you just adjust how much instrument X is any particular player's headphone mix by adjusting instrument X's corresponding aux send—not the channel gain or channel fader.

The advantage of using headphone amps (plural) for more me blends is that you can put them by the players' headphone stations and they can adjust their own mix and overall level. Unless you're using a WIFI interface, setting monitor mixes from the DAW works best w/ if nobody touches the aux mixes who isn't fully competent. Otherwise, you can end up w/ chaos pretty quickly.

However, something like the HP60 headphone amp puts you in a similar situation. If everyone walks over to it to adjust their own mix balance and level, pretty quickly you'll have the guitarist mistakenly jacking up the keys' IEM. (You'll also have a rats' nest of headphone extension cables as various players walk to and from the communal headphone amp.)