Gigging in Canada ‘23

[Jason Hollar]

Searched and found some zombie threads - hoping for some updated info.

Got an offer to play a week at a winery in Ontario followed by a private event.

I’ve got my US passport & the fancy new passport card.

How does this work?

Any work visa / permit required? Paperwork from venue? Equipment list?

I’ll be driving - taking minimal kit, maybe two electric basses and two small combos (gotta have my TB approved backups).

 

[dreamadream99]

I believe a work visa will be required. Otherwise, they may not be able to pay you, and you might be accused of taking jobs away from real Canadians.

actually, I believe anytime you go to another country with the purpose of earning money, a visa is required, otherwise they have to pay you in cash “under the table“, and it is considered illegal. So illegal, in fact, that if customs asks you if you are there for business or pleasure, and you say business, without a visa, you might be detained.

 

[bass12]

I don't know how it is coming into Canada, but I know that anytime I go into the U.S. with an instrument I get the third degree. I've only played one paying gig in the U.S. and for that gig I needed a work visa.

Also, coming back into Canada with an instrument I sometimes need to provide proof that taxes have been paid on my instrument. This can be a real pain in the butt, so I make sure I have the original receipt (or customs clearance form if bought outside Canada) for any bass I take with me across the border.

 

[Beej]

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/permit/temporary.html

 

[Grinderman]

There are three basic matters: customs, immigration, and work permits. Country of citizenship, country of current residency, work classification, and duration of stay to work will matter in various ways and degrees to all three.

I'm Canadian-American, a Canadian by birth. Even if I were to reenter Canada to take long or medium-term employment or do any kind of temp/gig work I suspect I need to file some paperwork. Temporary gig work vs long-term employment, and the type or classification--e.g. musician--are going to be meaningful distinctions.

Because of the work aspect, as just a U.S. citizen in your case, that likely entails some form of immigration visa otherwise you'd simply need your passport to enter as a visitor/tourist. What I'd need to do as a Canadian-American in such a situation would probably be simpler but that doesn't apply to you.

Transporting a pile of gear back and forth may call attention from customs on both sides. I've never needed or was required to show receipts or proof of taxes paid either way for personal property, even before I became a naturalized U.S. citizen. The customs aspect has always been a fairly simple declaration at the crossing. Connecting your gear with your gig may change the degree of scrutiny. It wouldn't hurt to have those documents though. That's setting aside the whole CITES Brazilian rosewood matters.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I guess I'm still a rebellious punk. I read these posts and wondered what I'd say to customs on a bridge (if anything) about playing a gig in the border crossing English speaking country I live next to...
"Yes sir just coming up for a little R&R! What, the rig? Yeah my buddy is having a birthday and we're gonna play some tunes. Money? Heck no I'm not good enough to play for money. Ya might pay me to stop?"...
Rock n roll is about rebellion.
These are not the droids you're looking for...

 

[Altitude]

Best discussed with a tax planner, for sure.

Anecdotally, about ten years ago I spent a single day in Calgary doing some client work and I had to file a Canadian tax return that year.

 

[bigjames]

I believe a work visa will be required. Otherwise, they may not be able to pay you, and you might be accused of taking jobs away from real Canadians.

actually, I believe anytime you go to another country with the purpose of earning money, a visa is required, otherwise they have to pay you in cash “under the table“, and it is considered illegal. So illegal, in fact, that if customs asks you if you are there for business or pleasure, and you say business, without a visa, you might be detained.

Potentially detained I suppose, but in my experience in both directions, more likely turned around and not allowed into the country. I have colleagues on both sides of the border that have experienced this: one from Spokane WA coming to Vancouver (Canada) and told CBSA that he was entering Canada for "work" when they found some tools and questioned him and he was turned around. Another from Vancouver (Canada) heading to San Francisco and told Border Services that it was for work and he was denied access. The worst outcome (in my opinion) would be being issued a long term denial of entry. Really hard to get lifted once it is applied.

 

[Jason Hollar]

That's setting aside the whole CITES Brazilian rosewood matters.

 

[Grinderman]

View attachment 5085611

Okay, I was aware restrictions had changed though I was under the impression accompanying documentation was still potentially required.

 

[bigjames]

View attachment 5085611

This is GREAT NEWS! Thank you for sharing this! I thought my Brazilian rosewood fingerboard Sadowsky NYC would never see the US again! LOL.

 

[J Wilson]

I would urge you to do your homework and have everything squared away and understood before you set out. You do NOT want any loose ends or surprises in Canadian or US Customs.

I played in The Maratimes and around Toronto in the 90's, but it was an experienced touring act and everything was handled by management, but we were under strict instructions not to play around with those guys, as they can have their ears up with musicians.

And don't be surprised if the hardest part is coming back through the US side.

 

[Grinderman]

Best discussed with a tax planner, for sure.

Anecdotally, about ten years ago I spent a single day in Calgary doing some client work and I had to file a Canadian tax return that year.

You didn't have to pay income taxes to Canada, thus double, though, right? I'm surprised you even needed to file there.

There are treaties between the U.S. and Canada about income taxes of nationals of both countries crossing for employment so there's no double taxation. I thought it streamlined reporting/filing too.

My grandfather used to do this and I have close family friends who live in Windsor Ontario but work in Detroit currently.

 

[J Wilson]

I guess I'm still a rebellious punk. I read these posts and wondered what I'd say to customs on a bridge (if anything) about playing a gig in the border crossing English speaking country I live next to...
"Yes sir just coming up for a little R&R! What, the rig? Yeah my buddy is having a birthday and we're gonna play some tunes. Money? Heck no I'm not good enough to play for money. Ya might pay me to stop?"...
Rock n roll is about rebellion.
These are not the droids you're looking for...

Customs guys just LIVE for guys like that.

Once, crossing back to Del Rio,TX from Rio Acuna, there was a jeep with 5 guys who'd polished mas tequila and where pretty well sloshed. The agent asked them if they had anything to declare and Big Mouth piped something along the lines of he was one ugly guy (in much louder, filthy language). Asked if they were bringing anything back with them, Big Mouth #2 responded about 10 pounds of pot. . . . They were suddenly surrounded and forcibly removed and thrown on the ground and cuffed. They then got to watch Customs take the Jeep apart down to the frame looking for the pot.

You don't play with them.

 

[Grinderman]

I would urge you to do your homework and have everything squared away and understood before you set out. You do NOT want any loose ends or surprises in Canadian or US Customs.

I played in The Maratimes and around Toronto in the 90's, but it was an experienced touring act and everything was handled by management, but we were under strict instructions not to play around with those guys, as they can have their ears up with musicians.

And don't be surprised if the hardest part is coming back through the US side.

That's the way to do it.

My first cousin from the Toronto and Hamilton area is a drummer and he's toured down here in the U.S. with a band before but never occurred to me to ask him about how that legal stuff went for them. Without experienced management to handle that business, it seems to me touring or gigging across borders is a PITA, potentially a massive PITA.

 

[Grinderman]

Searched and found some zombie threads - hoping for some updated info.

Got an offer to play a week at a winery in Ontario followed by a private event.

I’ve got my US passport & the fancy new passport card.

How does this work?

Any work visa / permit required? Paperwork from venue? Equipment list?

I’ll be driving - taking minimal kit, maybe two electric basses and two small combos (gotta have my TB approved backups).

Is that around the Niagara-on-the-Lake area? Maybe just go there for the winery tours/drinking, and skip all those gigging hassles?

I wish the whole working, touring, etc border situation between the U.S. and Canada were more open.

 

[Altitude]

You didn't have to pay income taxes to Canada, thus double, though, right? I'm surprised you even needed to file there.

There are treaties between the U.S. and Canada about income taxes of nationals of both countries crossing for employment so there's no double taxation. I thought it streamlined reporting/filing too.

My grandfather used to do this and I have close family friends who live in Windsor Ontario but work in Detroit currently.

It was complex, but tl/dr is that they netted out the Canadian tax against my US Federal tax that year. Thankfully my employer was an accounting firm and they kept the complexity away from me for the most part.

 

[edencab]

maybe also bring copies, if you have them, of receipts, for all your gear so there is no question of ownership and date/origin of purchase when retuning home

 

[Grinderman]

It was complex, but tl/dr is that they netted out the Canadian tax against my US Federal tax that year. Thankfully my employer was an accounting firm and they kept the complexity away from me for the most part.

It should be that you pay based on where you reside, not where you work, according to the U.S.-Canadian tax treaties. --I didn't say that so clearly before.

 

[Altitude]

It should be that you pay based on where you reside, not where you work, according to the U.S.-Canadian tax treaties. --I didn't say that so clearly before.

This happened in ~2012. Might have been different then.