Graphite stiffening VS dual truss rods?

reverendrally

reverendrally

Jun 7, 2008
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Sydney Australia
obsofaboganpastor.blogspot.com.au
#1
As a few of you know, I'm in the throws of building another 6 string bass. What I'm wondering is whether I should be using something more than the single trussrod I've gone with in the past. I've avoided stiffening bars in the past because I want the timber to do the work (and I'm cheap). I've never seen the need for dual trussrods with a chunky neck and deep neck pocket singlecut designs. The new design has the opposite. A 4 bolt neck joint and a thin profile. It will also be 36" scale. So extra stress on the neck.

BTW, I'm aiming for a significantly thinner neck profile than in the past for this reason. About 2 months back I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis in both thumbs and I'm already feeling it in guitar playing.

So, talk me through the pluses and minuses of these two.

Paging @Bruce Johnson!

P.s. I'm also curious about the upside/downside of heal adjusted vs headstock adjusted truss rods.
 
#2
I often use dual truss rods, even for 4 and 5 string necks. I've even used a dual truss rod and aluminum stiffening bar in a build recently. I didn't even need to make an adjustment on that one after putting on the strings, and tuning it up. Most of my necks are rather thin, front to back, so I like the extra support. There are many who say it's overkill, but it's worked well for me.

The down side is that it does add a little weight, and balance of the instrument takes a little more thought. I typically use ultra light tuners, and make sure the upper horn is at least level with the 12th fret.
 
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#4
A subject of great interest to me. I opted for a single truss rod and two graphite rods because I didn't want to hog out the big chunk of wood required for two headstock adjusters on my Ric clone build. Thats where Ric headstocks break when they get whacked. I was mimicking Warmouth neck design, I have one with that setup, and its very stable. So far, so good. I can't claim any underlying base of knowledge to support my decision, it just made some intuitive sense. Unless you have metric router bits on hand, id look for graphite bars in standard SAE dimensions, mine were 1/8" x 3/8", so I just used a spiral upcut 1/8" bit. I like headstock adjust just for ease of use and aesthetics. The heel adjusters with spoke wheels are easy to adjust, but I don't like how they look.
Edit: I remember Bruce uses a proprietary design of his own for trussrods, I'm pretty sure he sells them on a limited basis. I don't fully understand the design based on photos, but I think he epoxies them in place rather than a traditional floating design.
 
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#6
Gilmourisgod said:
A subject of great interest to me. I opted for a single truss rod and two graphite rods because I didn't want to hog out the big chunk of wood required for two headstock adjusters on my Ric clone build. Thats where Ric headstocks break when they get whacked. I was mimicking Warmouth neck design, I have one with that setup, and its very stable. So far, so good. I can't claim any underlying base of knowledge to support my decision, it just made some intuitive sense. Unless you have metric router bits on hand, id look for graphite bars in standard SAE dimensions, mine were 1/8" x 3/8", so I just used a spiral upcut 1/8" bit. I like headstock adjust just for ease of use and aesthetics. The heel adjusters with spoke wheels are easy to adjust, but I don't like how they look.
Edit: I remember Bruce uses a proprietary design of his own for trussrods, I'm pretty sure he sells them on a limited basis. I don't fully understand the design based on photos, but I think he epoxies them in place rather than a traditional floating design.
Click to expand...

The Rev lives in Australia. He may come across a metric tool bit now and again.
 
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#9
Jisch said:
Truly, three countries in the world (USA, Liberia and Myanmar) know the score. You can have my foot long ruler when you pry it from my cold dead more or less inch long jointed fingers.

Ha! (I actually use metric when measuring for building.)
Click to expand...
Total sidebar... Yes, but Liberia has been transitioning to SI (metric) for a few years now, and Myanmar has also been transitioning to SI. Liberia has it's political roots in the USA, and Myanmar have their own historical measurement system, so have used both imperial and SI in the last few decades.

I find the whole imperial stick-to-it-ness to be quite interesting, myself included. I use both and am comfortable with both, like many Canadians born before the 1990s. It's funny that the US officially uses imperial measurements, when I personally know so many Americans who use both, and are quite comfortable with SI - lots of you folks on this forum included... :)
 
#11
I kind of depends on what kind of neck construction you are planning and how stable you want it. I built a 7 string headless bass with 9 laminates. It has a single two way rod, which does little for the stiffness. Unlike the older box rods which seems to help a lot. It had two carbon fibre rods and I can leave this bass for months and it seems never to be out of tune. My more recent 6 string bolt on has a 5 piece neck and a single truss rod...but no carbon rods and every time I pick it up it seems to need a slight re-tune. If I put my seven in a case, drive it to a gig and plug it in...rock solid...no re-tune. My Six always seems to need a slight re-tune.
 
#12
Eleven laminates of maple and purpleheart, two graphite bars and two truss rods. This one is about as stable as they come, and very near indestructable...
20525734_1471209856300819_6312194245897545352_n.jpg
20638278_1471209936300811_4006457729311525929_n.jpg

With a combination of laminates and graphite I would think a stable neck with a thin profile is achievable. This one has an angled headstock, but given it's construction the headstock is quite strong. A sister to this bass received poor treatment from a stage hand a number of years ago. It was knocked off the stand and the tip of the headstock hit the drum riser. There's a nasty ding in the headstock, but it didn't crack and was only slightly out of tune.
 
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#13
The common wisdom seems to be using double truss rods only for 6 string and up, Ric and Alembic are the only two companies I can think of who still use two trussrods on a 4 string, and I'm not sure about Alembic, there are probably more. This seems to be one of those subjects with lots of opinions, but I've never seen a real comparative study demonstrating which approach yields a more stable neck. If you get graphite rods, get them pre-cut to length, it's nasty to cut. I got some in my fingers, like metal splinters.
 
#16
My Steinberger neck is the original carbon fiber composite, with no trussrods. A small.amount of relief was cast into it in the mold. It never moves perceptibly, regardless of temperature or weather. Its truly a "solid state" neck, but if it ever warps, I'm screwed. Do all the Modulus and Status necks have trussrods? I knew a guy who had an early Modulus Jazz bass neck, heavy as hell, and I'm pretty sure no trussrods.
 
#19
MichaelOz said:
Hi Pete,

As you already know I don't build anything without graphite rods (4, 5, or 6) and use only one dual-action truss rod:

View attachment 1303017
Here's 2 5s and one 4 in progress.

Haven't had any stability issues so far in 6 completed builds, don't expect any in the future.

Regards,
Michael
Click to expand...

Where do you get your CF rods from?
 
#20
Thumpin6string said:
I solved this with a Graphite neck with dual truss rods.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I'm not ever going to do that for a few reasons.
1. I'm very committed to building instruments where the timber and structure are sufficiently compromised to actually effect the sound. I want the sound of the timber.
2. I have a serious concerns about the amount of petrol-chemicals used in composite materials as is. I can justify using small amounts, but I think a whole neck is unnecessarily extravagant. It's also impossible to recycle, where timber can be shredded/chipped etc and repurposed.
3. I have worked with epoxy/polyester resin with fibre glass and kevlar in the past on car projects. I really didn't enjoy the process or the chemicals. I have similar dislike for spray finishes.
 
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