Groove worn in fretboard

[Dodger57]

Hello,

New to the forums - thanks for the opportunity to ask some questions. I'm a home recording guitarist that plays just enough bass to get the parts down.

Sometime back I purchased a used 2012 Fender fretless Jazz Bass. I've got flatwoulds on it I played with it for a bit then put it up (probably disappointed I didn't immediately sound like Jaco ). I recently got it out again and was doing a little maintenance/setup and noticed [for the first time] some serious groves just past the nut and one just in front of the nut and about half way down the first fret. Photo attached...
Looks like the previous owner may have set it up with the nut a bit too low? Appears to just be cosmetic at this point. I ordered a new nut and will set it up high enough to avoid more damage.

Question for the forum - is it just cosmetic? Being fretless I won't be fretting anywhere near the groove so that seems okay. When I set it up this time should I ease off the string retainer? It was snugged down pretty tight and may be what helped with the grooves on the back side of the nut. Any other suggestions to avoid further damage?

Thanks
Daf

 

[steve_ss]

Hello,

New to the forums - thanks for the opportunity to ask some questions. I'm a home recording guitarist that plays just enough bass to get the parts down.

Sometime back I purchased a used 2012 Fender fretless Jazz Bass. I've got flatwoulds on it I played with it for a bit then put it up (probably disappointed I didn't immediately sound like Jaco ). I recently got it out again and was doing a little maintenance/setup and noticed [for the first time] some serious groves just past the nut and one just in front of the nut and about half way down the first fret. Photo attached...
Looks like the previous owner may have set it up with the nut a bit too low? Appears to just be cosmetic at this point. I ordered a new nut and will set it up high enough to avoid more damage.

Question for the forum - is it just cosmetic? Being fretless I won't be fretting anywhere near the groove so that seems okay. When I set it up this time should I ease off the string retainer? It was snugged down pretty tight and may be what helped with the grooves on the back side of the nut. Any other suggestions to avoid further damage?

Thanks
Daf



View attachment 7044616

Hi, I'm Steve. I just wanted to say Welcome to the chatty board. Sorry to see you have a problem. The experts will be here soon. In the meantime, have a look around and enjoy your visit.

 

[pingvuiini]

Gaugh! The nut looks REALLY low, almost barely there. Those grooves between the nut and the truss rod adjustment hole are really deep. Previous owner was probably going for the mwah.

 

[Dodger57]

Hi, I'm Steve. I just wanted to say Welcome to the chatty board. Sorry to see you have a problem. The experts will be here soon. In the meantime, have a look around and enjoy your visit.

Thanks, Steve!

 

[Dodger57]

Gaugh! The nut looks REALLY low, almost barely there. Those grooves between the nut and the truss rod adjustment hole are really deep. Previous owner was probably going for the mwah.

Yeah - it was very low!

 

[RSBBass]

That nut is low! You may be able to shim it rather than buy a new one and have it adjusted to fit and play well. The grooves should not effect the play-ability. Those grooves look too deep to fill. The only repair that would work would be to replace the fingerboard. A new neck would probably not cost any more. I would just leave it (except for the nut).

 

[Dodger57]

Thanks for the reply! Got a new nut on order as the original fell apart when I tried to remove it (to possibly shim). It was pretty brittle from age I guess.

I agree - new neck or fretboard would not be worth the expense. Thanks again!

That nut is low! You may be able to shim it rather than buy a new one and have it adjusted to fit and play well. The grooves should not effect the play-ability. Those grooves look too deep to fill. The only repair that would work would be to replace the fingerboard. A new neck would probably not cost any more. I would just leave it (except for the nut).

 

[sissy kathy]

Yes, the nut is low. But don't just put a new nut in and think you're good to go. The nut should be adjusted to fit the bass correctly. If you aren't familiar with that operation, take it to a reputable shop and have it fitted properly. The nut should be adjusted so that when you fret at the second fret the clearance at the first fret should match the clearance at the third. The nut gets filed or shimmed to match that third fret clearance. Once the nut is properly fitted the grove in the fingerboard will be irrelevant. As long as the nut is doing its job the grooves behind the nut don't matter in any event.

 

[JRA]

...noticed [for the first time] some serious groves just past the nut

those were filed into the wood to allow the strings to be lowered by the low-sitting nut. it's not "damage" --- it's SOP for fretless.

...and one just in front of the nut and about half way down the first fret.

the cat was serious about "low!" if the A string plays correctly = wouldn't worry about it! otherwise (cosmetic), your luthier can easily remedy that with a dab of epoxy. but, if the A string slot was cut too low, compared to the others, a repair for just that slot may be all that's needed.

Looks like the previous owner may have set it up with the nut a bit too low?

fretless nuts are meant to be low, and yes: even that low for some players. raising the nut height will affect intonation when stopping a note, and it will make the instrument somewhat harder to play....

I ordered a new nut and will set it up high enough to avoid more damage.

as it's not really "damage" you'll just be changing the way the thing plays. since you're not really a fretless player = you might not care or notice... or, you might prefer the higher action!

with a fretless: it's all about ears. since you didn't comment on how the thing sounded to you before you messed with the nut, i have to assume that it sounded fine and that it played easily on the lower end of the fingerboard, just the way it should.

your new nut will start out way too high. it's quite possible (for your style of fretless playing) that you'll appreciate higher string action. it's also possible that you'll appreciate the action as it was before you messed with it, and that you'll end up with a nut that looks remarkably like the one you started with.

TL;DR: it's not about how it looks. you jumped the gun and may have ruined a perfectly good setup. follow @sissy kathy's advice and take it to someone who knows how to set up a fretless --- and good luck getting a handle on fretless EBs!

 

[Dodger57]

Thanks, kathy! I have a little experience with cutting and filing nuts and will be very careful with the new setup. You mentioned: "fret at the second fret the clearance at the first fret should match the clearance at the third" - I 'm wondering, tho, does the fact that it is fretless effect the nut height?

Thanks again!

Yes, the nut is low. But don't just put a new nut in and think you're good to go. The nut should be adjusted to fit the bass correctly. If you aren't familiar with that operation, take it to a reputable shop and have it fitted properly. The nut should be adjusted so that when you fret at the second fret the clearance at the first fret should match the clearance at the third. The nut gets filed or shimmed to match that third fret clearance. Once the nut is properly fitted the grove in the fingerboard will be irrelevant. As long as the nut is doing its job the grooves behind the nut don't matter in any event.

 

[Dodger57]

you jumped the gun and may have ruined a perfectly good setup

Not the first time!

Thanks for the reply, JRA! All good info and will be taken into consideration. I neglected to mention that the reason I noticed all of that in first place was that the nut was broken between the E and A slot. So a new nut was in the cards regardless. There is not a "luthier" in our area - only a Guitar Center tech and I've already contacted him about a setup - he wants no part of a fretless instrument. So, that's fine, I'll take the advice here and whatever else I find on the web and see what I can do. Thanks again!
Daf

 

[fretno]

That board can easily be repaired by a tech. Just find a good tech. You’ll need a new nut and setup too.

 

[sissy kathy]

Thanks, kathy! I have a little experience with cutting and filing nuts and will be very careful with the new setup. You mentioned: "fret at the second fret the clearance at the first fret should match the clearance at the third" - I 'm wondering, tho, does the fact that it is fretless effect the nut height?

Thanks again!

Yes it will because the point of contact at the second fret is lower. That has no effect on the procedure though. I'm saying 'fret' in this thread; I realize there are no frets on the fingerboard, but for lack of a better term, I use 'fret'.

 

[Turnaround]

... "fret at the second fret the clearance at the first fret should match the clearance at the third"

Thanks again!

Not really. When adjusting the nut slots on a fretted instrument, the distance between the string and first fret should be the same as the space between the string and the second fret when fretting at the first fret.

On a fretless instrument, the open string should almost touch the fingerboard at the nut. Generally the advice given is that the gap there should be about the thickness of a business card (not a credit card) , about .010" to .012".

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I like to set up my fretless basses like Turnaround said above, strings barely off of the fingerboard. If you ordered a slotted nut it’s almost definitely going to come slotted for a tall fretted bass set up meaning there will be a significant amount to remove to get it in the ballpark.

As also mentioned above, the grooves behind the nut are to let the strings get some break angle between the nut and tuners, pretty standard for that Fender style fingerboard.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

It may be possible to fill those grooves with rosewood dust and CA glue, which will be reasonably convincing at anything more than a short distance. Never seen a fretless nut cut THAT low before, my fretless has the classic "mwah" up and down the whole neck, and the nut looks nothing like that. That looks like some previous owner ineptly trying to get some kind of super-low action, and failing, hard.

 

[JRA]

every ax is different. there is no "one way" to set up all individual instruments, and going strictly by "looks" isn't usually the best way to find a solution for something that is best felt or heard (especially with fretless!)...the exception might be when looking at a measurement --- if you're into measurements.

here is a pic of one of my allparts fender licensed necks showing the luthier-created notches that had to be cut in order to get the proper break angle with a particular nut (wanted very low action):


it's not radically different from the OP's.

each of my axes has a different 'notching' depending on the nut/break + the feel i want. all of them feel about the same to me, but each has a different cut nut (slots), different strings, etc.

my point: they're all different, from one to another...they shouldn't be (maybe), but they are!

 

[Engle]

The slots on the tuner side of the nut aren't a problem, but you want the open string to be in tune, the break point needs to be at the edge of the nut. It's hard to tell from the picture.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Fretted bass = a slotted fret ie nut + subsequent unslotted frets

Fretless bass = a slotted fret ie nut + 1 subsequent humungus unslotted fret ie fretboard.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Fretted bass = a slotted fret ie nut + subsequent unslotted frets

Fretless bass = a slotted fret ie nut + 1 subsequent humungus unslotted fret ie fretboard.

To add potential confusion here why is the playing surface of the neck still called a fretboard on a fretless bass by most bassists? I think of it as a fingerboard.