Hand cramping while live playing

Heres one I cant really figure out yet.

I can practice with my band all day long and have zero left hand fatigue.
I can sit and play in my room all day and have zero left hand fatigue.
But live, by the end of the second song my left hand is just cramped and fatigued.
I find it hard to believe im letting adrenaline get the best of me and im hitting so hard this is happening (but I suppose its possible)
I tried with a few different basses, some of them slow the process, but still by the end my hand is beat.
Ive been really trying to improve my technique the last year and have changed my playing style a bit. I have no idea whats happening so any help here would be nice.
Any ideas what is going on here.
FYI im a natural righty.
 
Do you stand when you practice? If you sit to play except when you play live, it might change the angle of the dangle.

Either that or you're just getting excited.....
 
As mentioned above, practice all of your tunes standing up(as performed) to make sure there are no problems there.

Is your nutrition different on gig days?
I'm 57 and have found eating certain ways on gig days helps a LOT.
Sample of what is done here:
Breakfast: whey milk & protein mix + handful of vitamins(C, B, etc)
Lunch fish(tuna usually) + whey milk+protein + vitamins
On the way to gig: a banana & Amino Fuel by Twinlab(1 our prior)
Post gig ride home(93 miles for me) banana, Amino Fuel, + something with salt if I sweated a lot.

No hand cramps & go to work on 4-1/2 hours of sleep(today).
My 2 cents.
 
Happened to me once at a gig 10 years ago. It was one of the first gigs we ever played, and I was very nervous. The song I was playing had a very steady 8th note pattern, and halfway through my right hand just seized up. I couldn't play with it. We took a 10 minute break, and I was able to play again. That never happened to me again while playing. However in the past year I have noticed some slight carpal tunnel symptoms appearing in the same hand, so who knows if it was related or not?
 
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I started having this problem a while back, only in my right hand. But the underlying issues may be the same. I narrowed it down to two issues.

1. Plucking harder than normal because I couldn't hear myself well. When I finally realized how hard I was plucking I just cranked the amp, asked the sound guy to boost me in the monitor, and forced myself to pluck more lightly. This made a huge difference. I wonder if you are subconsciously squeezing too hard with your fretting hand due to the excitement of the gig or something--it kind of makes sense since it doesn't happen in more relaxed settings. Try to force yourself to relax your hand and press the strings only has hard as you need to. You might also want to make sure your action is fairly low so you don't have to press the strings down as hard.

2. Dehydration. It took me a while to make the connection, but the cramps generally would happen toward the end of a set when I hadn't been drinking enough water. When I drank plenty of water the cramping tended to happen less frequently, and if it did happen wasn't as severe.

I hope this helps you solve your problem. It is really crappy when this happens on a gig.
 
Do you have a video of your gig up so we can see your technique and possibly offer some tips & pointers? If not then a good private instructor can critique your right and left hand, offer some suggestions to make your playing more relaxed and economical. :)

Personally I use a very relaxed left hand with 1-2-4 fingering and my fingers rather flat on the fretboard (not steeply arched/curved). My hand is never spread out or stretched more than 2 frets. I make sure my bass is hanging at a height and angle that there are no sharp bends or tension in my hand/wrist/arm/elbow/shoulder/neck. My basses are always properly set up with a low, comfortable action and low-tension strings. I won't say I have the best technique in the world, but I have longevity (been playing 25 years with no playing-related injuries).

Remember that a properly set up and amplified electric bass guitar is one of the absolute least physically demanding instruments to play. No great strength or endurance should be required; keep it smooth and relaxed. :)
 
Hello everyone. Sorry it took me so long to respond, I unexpectedly lost internet.
So, ive read all the comments and here is what I take from it/have to say.

For one, the first thing that hit me was the dehydration comment. Ive been having issues with staying properly hyrdated for years now. Im especially less hyrdrated while playing a show.
Perhaps I should look up how to stay better hydrated in a situation like that and the affects it could have if I do.

The plucking hard theory would make sense except that I am having trouble with my fretted hand. I have a rather low action, and though I cant verify if I do indeed hit harder on my fretted hand live, it will be something I will watch closer.

On the subject of harder, I was wondering what would happen if I anchor the neck harder with my thumb live. I have a bad habit of "gripping" the back of the neck with my thumb and Ive been consciously trying hard to not do that. Perhaps that is an issue as well. Or perhaps Im putting to much pressure on my hand by supporting the neck and playing rough.

Finally, I rarely play sitting down, mostly only when im writing. I actually try to practice as consistently as possible while standing up and moving around so I am better acclimated to a live situation. When I do sit down to play, as you will see in the videos, I use what I believe is referred to as a jazz position to try to get a better wrist/neck angle match to when Im wearing a strap.

I have included two rough videos of me playing one of my bands songs. (The second video doesnt have any bass audio as these are unedited and I havent imported the audio yet)

They are rough but they should give you a good idea of my technique. Feel free to criticize it and offer suggestions as to how I could improve my left hand technique. Also, this particular song is one of the least energetic I play.

All of the comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated guys. This is a real bugger and frustration that I would really like to get rid of.

http://s924.beta.photobucket.com/user/analpoundingpoopiehammer1/library/Bass playing
 
Do you wear your bass super low when you stand up to play live? If so, that might explain your hand cramping, and you can fix it pretty easily by just adjusting your strap so your bass sits higher. Wearing your bass super low can also bring on tendinitis... not cool.

On a little side note, I had cramping problems in my left hand that I eventually figured out was because of the skinny little neck on my Jazz Bass. I switched to Stingrays and P Basses, which have wider heftier necks and I no longer have the cramps.
 
First point, do not grip or hold the neck, just rest your thumb against it. The neck is not for holding it is there for the purpose of the fretboard, the fact you can hold it is neither here nor there, so resist the temptation to do so, fact is if you hold it you restrict your fingers.

Fatigue and Diet

It depends on where you need endurance. If your hand tires and aches then it is part technique, for the reality is you should feel this in your forearm....not your hand. Yes your hand will tire, but not really hurt. The 'pain' in your forearm is more of a burning feeling rather than pain, and will go after a minute or twos pause. This is caused by the build up of lactic acid in the muscle and the reason we tire is to slow down the production of lactic acid and allow the muscle to clear it via the bloodstream.

So for endurance what you need is 'food for the muscles' in the hands and arms. Since using the hands extensively does not raise the heart rate, so increase the blood flow to the muscles bringing them much needed energy then the energy to fuel the muscle must come from somewhere else. In other word you do not get out of breath using your hands so it is not an aerobic use, it is an anaerobic use.

So lots of water, stay hydrated, not with energy drinks, energy drinks are an instant short lived boost what we need is good long term slow release foods. All that means is food that releases a steady stream of energy over time, not a big short term boost, that frankly when used will see us crave another one....eventually. They are good for a top up but not for the source of the energy.

To function properly, in life as well as in playing,we all need energy. Our fuel comes from a combinations of the quality of our breathing and the food we eat, but not all foods are the energy rich sources we need. Remember in playing, there is a certain mental stress that happens, it may not be visible or we may not even be aware of it, but it is there. The body prepares for the coming task in many ways from anxiety, nervousness etc, to elation and joy. On stage we perspire more than normal, especially forces perspiration as under heavy lights. This drains our energy, it drains our body of much needed salts and minerals, so it is no wonder that sometimes we suffer fatigue.

Fatigue, lethargy and depression can occur due to deficient energy in the body and low blood sugar levels. Excess energy intake, because we normally play at nights if way to much may induce restless or broken sleep, which again adds to the problems. So having a good balanced diet makes it easier, as does eating the correct foods in the correct amounts before playing. So rather than a burger and a few beers try and find better foods to help give a balanced source of energy.

Vegetables –
Green Vegetables contain vitamins and minerals including vitamin B, magnesium and iron. E.g. Sprouts, Broccoli, Asparagus, and Spinach. Other vegetables also give you an energy boost. Carrots, potatoes and other vegetables are full of vitamins and nutrients and they can raise your blood sugar because they are digested and quickly absorbed in the bloodstream. These energy-giving foods are good for you and contain such vitamins as Vitamin A, Vitamin C, folic acid and potassium. Green Parsley leaves have lots of vitamin C and boosts cell regeneration helping the body get more energy, chewing on them will help reduce breath orders as it has great neutralising chemicals in it.....it will help with things like 'garlic breath, smokers or beer breath'.
Eggs –
Eggs are a great source of energy, and supply a high amount of protein. Protein is vital in almost every bodily function, and most people experience better energy levels when consuming a good source of protein at every meal. Eggs are considered a complete protein.
Cereals –
Cereals such as Shredded Wheat, Corn Flakes or oatmeal are great foods that can give you a lift. These cereals tend to be digested slowly so they give an extended release, and help to keep your blood sugar level stable. Adding fresh fruit to the mix will also provide a steady release of glucose, keeping your body fueled and your brain alert throughout the day. Oats are the best head start you can give your body every day! Oats are low on the glycemic index as they contain a lot of fiber, which means that your body gets a steady stream of energy. They also contain energizing and stress-reducing B vitamins that help to break down carbohydrates into usable energy.
Fruits –
Fruits are a food group that guarantees an energy intake due to the fructose level and the vitamins they all carry, particularly Vitamin C. The most energizing fruit are grapes, peaches and citrus fruit due to their high fructose content, as well as bananas, watermelon, oranges, mangoes, dates, pineapple, cranberries and papaya.
Seeds –
Most of the seeds such as sunflower and pumpkin are very rich in proteins and minerals and their presence in a person’s nutrition is an important source of energy. They are also a source of magnesium and iron. The polyunsaturated fats they contain are benefit for the cardiovascular system and help the blood flow to the heart and brain.
Nuts –
All nuts from peanuts to pistachio are an excellent source of minerals with a high nutrition factor. They contain vitamins A, B and E, potassium, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and iron. They fight against anemia and bring the body durable energy.
Fruit smoothies and shakes –
The smart combination of fruit juice and milk is always a source of energy. The combination of vitamins and calcium increases the body’s energetic potential and it is also a very refreshing helping hand when you get extra tired while working.
Green tea –
Green Tea is a source of antioxidants and an important resource of energy for the entire body.
Honey –
a fantastic source of energy
Beans and lentils-
These are a great source of potassium and carbohydrates. Lentils are a great source of both carbohydrate and protein. They are also high in B vitamins, iron, magnesium, potassium, zinc, calcium and copper. Lentils are also low in fat and calories.

So in short help your body and give your muscles a chance to work at full potential. One of the reasons for pain, cramp, tiredness, is your bodies way of reducing the stress it is coming under through lack of energy. So to prevent damage and injury, it will slow down the use to ease the person away from that level of use, or introduce pain to stop the use immediately if it feels damage will occur. So in short you body will protect itself from you, what you have to do is listen to it and learn to maximise those shut down levels.
Warm ups and stretches before and after use will always help, and over three sets you have breaks, use then to re- hydrate and replace lost energy, minerals and salts.

A note about Potassium;
Potassium must be rightly included in your daily diet to reduce the risk of heart attacks and blood pressure problems.
Potassium is a good source of cramp prevention and relief.
Sufficient potassium can be consumed by including the potassium rich foods in our daily diet.
Potassium rich foods are listed below and are categorized according to the fruits, vegetables, dairy products and other potassium rich foods.
Proper amount of potassium must be included in food.
There are two main problems associated with Potassium levels that can develop, hyperkalemia or hypokalemia.
Hyperkalemia is excessive storage of potassium and hypokalemia is deficiency of potassium.
A balanced diet should be enough to sustain a healthy Potassium and vitamin level as well as most of the chemical elements the body needs so see a doctor or nutritionist if you have recurring problems, it may be linked to your diet as well as your life style. Here are foods noted for being Potassium rich;

VEGETABLES ;
Artichoke
Acorn squash
Baked beans
Butternut squash
Bamboo shoots
Fresh or boiled beet
Black beans
Lima beans
Cabbage
Brussels sprouts
Carrots
Dried peas and beans
Hubbard squash
Lentils
Legumes
Mushrooms
Turnip cabbage
Pumpkin
Potatoes
Parsnips
Refried beans
Cooked spinach
Tomatoes and tomato products
Yellow turnips
Vegetable juices
Lettuce
Kidney beans
Cauliflower
Broccoli

FRUITS;
Apple
Apricots
Avocado
Cantaloupe
Bananas
Dates
Figs
Kiwi fruit
Mango
Orange and orange juice
Papaya
Peach
Strawberries
Watermelon juices
Raisins
Prunes and prune juice
Pear
Nectarines
Honeydew
Grapefruit
Pomegranate

MEAT AND FISH;
Beef
Chicken
Lamb
Pork
Liver
Turkey
Veal
Bass
Flounder
Haddock
Halibut
Oysters
Perch
Salmon
Scallops
Tuna

BEVERAGES/DRINKS;
Beer
Red wine
White wine
Cider

MISCELLANEOUS FOODS;
Bran products
Chocolate
Granola
Molasses
Milk
Nuts and seeds
Peanut Butter
Yogurt
Peanuts
Ice milk
Eggs
Wheat bread
Apple cider vinegar
Cottage cheese
Ricotta cheese
Vanilla Ice-cream
Cinnamon raisin bagel
Plain bagel
French bread
Plain bagel
Onion, poppy and sesame seed bagel
Oatmeal bread
English muffins
Cocoa powder

Any questions this post has raised, please post here and I will try and answer them if I can.
 
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I watched your video, a couple of comments:

1. I think practicing in a chair with arms will teach you some bad habits; I recommend to practice in an armless chair or stool. Or standing up.

2. You have 3 different left hand positions. You have a relaxed grip that uses all 4 fingers that looks fine. But when you hold a note for a long time, you turn your hand 45 degrees and clamp down with either your 1st finger (for a low note) or 3rd finger (for a higher note) which looks cramped and uncomfortable to me. I'd recommend to find a more consistent and relaxed hand position that smoothly transitions from playing high notes to low notes. Here's a video I found helpful:
 
1.Meditation(breathing)this is huge, Hydration (WATER,No alcohol or soda on the day of a show, at least till your finished). And don't fret so hard. I noticed your bending notes. Unless you mean to. Fret as light as possible. It will add grace to your playing and get you through complicated sections. Good luck. Let us know how its coming along.
 
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The plucking hard theory would make sense except that I am having trouble with my fretted hand. I have a rather low action, and though I cant verify if I do indeed hit harder on my fretted hand live, it will be something I will watch closer.
You will notice that your hands copy each other--if you pluck hard with your right hand you will tend to grip the neck harder with your left.
 
I've recently have had the same problem. I've been playing for 30 years with no problem at all. So I'm needing to answer the question: what has changed? I'm thinking maybe carpal tunnel syndrome. I'll have to get that checked by a doctor. Other than that, maybe strength training, and possibly look into dietary changes. I guess things change when you get older LOL. 55 came way to quickly.
 
I've had this on 4 gigs now and noticed a trend. I think dehydration might be a factor and being run down too. The problem is towards the end of the second set my right hand just closes and I can't reopen the fingers without using the left hand. There is no pain or snapping, it's just a loss of control.

The 4 times it's happened I've had a cold, been tired and I've not eaten well or drunk enough water. It happened last Saturday at the end of the second set. I've had a cough for weeks and I'm just about recovered. The gig ran late though and people wanted us to play on. At 00:45 I felt myself starting to lose control / responsiveness so switched to a plectrum instead for the last few songs. I was silly as I only took 1 pint of Guinness on stage for what turned out to be a 90 minute final set with two encores. I'd last eaten at 15:00 before leaving home.

I'm going to focus on keeping hydrated and well fed on gig days. I will return to this thread if the problem still occurs. I don't think its a permanent physical problem because as the original poster stated I can happily play in 4-5 hour blocks for recording and rehearsals with no issues
 
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