Help a noob out! 3 P pickups 1 bass

[schultheiss]

Hello!

First I gotta say - I have no idea what I'm doing.

So, I have a P fretless bass that I'd like to modify in order to test out my amateurish woodworking skills by digging out two additional pickup cavities in which I plan to install two more P pickups. That part of the plan is pretty 'straightforward' which doesn't mean I won't mess it up but that's a whole another topic.

What's bothering me is how to wire things up inside? So far, my biggest achievements were pickup swaps and soldering everything back into place. But regarding this whole thing of "how to wire 3 passive pickups and not make them sound like trash" is way above my knowledge. I know nothing and researching stuff simply leaves me with more questions and general confusion.

My initial idea was to take 3 stacked pots (A250K/A250K) and wire each pickup to its dedicated pot (vol/tone) but it looks like (according to the internet) that will sound like trash. I really like the idea of not having a switch and being able to control each pickup fully individually and blend them to my liking but I guess I'm way over my head. So much that I'm not even sure which questions to ask.

Can anyone help me out with some advices or recommendations on how to approach this issue?

Any advice is appreciated, even the "you're an idiot, that's not how it's done" ones, thanks!

 

[Malak the Mad]

I posed a similar question a year ago. In my case, it would be two Jazz pickups in the '70s position, giving them a little more space in-between, and a big, MusicMan humbucker dropped in the middle. Each pickup would go to a discreet, Jaguar switch, then the whole thing would feed into a reproduction of a '70s-style, StingRay preamp.

Electronics are big mystery to me, so I posed the question in this thread. Here's the best answer I got. Since nothing else was posted to refute it, or give alternate suggestions, I think I was on the right track from the start.

Definitely should work. And I approve of using on/off switches instead of three volume knobs (like so many other people want). Using switches will keep the passive loading down, and will keep the tone crisp and bright. Feed that into a MM-style preamp and you should have a bass capable of some powerful tones!

I know you said you didn't want any switches, so take this for what it's worth. Whichever way you go, good luck!

 

[poochiecheeks]

I would consider a 4-5 way rotary switch with different combinations to avoid 3 volume pots. Getting 3 pickups to blend in any meaningful way without active buffered inputs or the volume pots acting like switches sounds impossible. Look at the Gibson G3 for ideas

 

[Malak the Mad]

I would consider a 4-5 way rotary switch with different combinations to avoid 3 volume pots. Getting 3 pickups to blend in any meaningful way without active buffered inputs or the volume pots acting like switches sounds impossible. Look at the Gibson G3 for ideas

I was wondering if that would work, too. If you did something like that, what configuration would you give to each position?

If it were me, and I went for a rotary switch, I'd probably want a 6-way, assuming it could be wired like this;

1. Neck solo
2. Neck & Middle
3. Middle solo
4. Middle & Bridge
5. Bridge solo
6. Neck & Bridge

If that were even possible, having that #6 would be important to me.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I posed a similar question a year ago. In my case, it would be two Jazz pickups in the '70s position, giving them a little more space in-between, and a big, MusicMan humbucker dropped in the middle. Each pickup would go to a discreet, Jaguar switch, then the whole thing would feed into a reproduction of a '70s-style, StingRay preamp.

Electronics are big mystery to me, so I posed the question in this thread. Here's the best answer I got. Since nothing else was posted to refute it, or give alternate suggestions, I think I was on the right track from the start.

I know you said you didn't want any switches, so take this for what it's worth. Whichever way you go, good luck!

Have you completed this build? Looks like a really interesting idea, would like to know how it turns/turned out!

 

[atquinn]

I would just do it strat style myself. 5-way switch, volume tone. Then depending on room in the wiring cavity, I'd either add a mini-switch or make the tone a push-pull (not a fan of push-pull pots) as a bridge pickup-always-on switch. That way you would be able to get the neck+bridge and all-three-on pickup combinations..

 

[Malak the Mad]

Have you completed this build? Looks like a really interesting idea, would like to know how it turns/turned out!

Thanks, Hank! Sadly, no. I've been working on other parts-basses. That, and doing this one will require a lot of precise routing for the front and back, so I have to be spot-on the first time around.

Quick aside...I will have an "Unveiling" for another parts-bass very soon, though. I just finished Photoshopping and uploading pics to Imgur, so all I have left to do is the write-up. But, as a preview...

 

[micguy]

The position of a pickup is a potentially powerful force that will affect your tone. The halves of a split P pickup are about an inch apart - when you're at the normal position - that far out from the bridge, the position difference thing is there, but it isn't too obvious when playing strings on either half. You can go further out from the bridge, and things, will still be OK - they actually get better as the relative amount of distance is less. But, when you move towards the bridge, the difference of an inch starts to matter a lot more - a split P bridge pickup isn't all that useful, as one half (the one nearer the bridge) will be noticeably thin sounding. The reason there are a lot more PJ basses and JJ basses than there are PP basses is largely because of this - a bridge P isn't a good idea. It sounds more or less OK when combined with the neck pickup, but a bridge P soloed just isn't a very useful sound.

One of my first basses was a dual P - a Kramer Stagemaster. It had a lot of things going for it - great neck, very well built. The sound of the bridge pickup soloed, however - I literally never used that sound.

 

[scuzzy]

I like using 3 on/off switches with this type of setup. Then a master volume & tone. just me, but I have 3 basses set up like this, and I don't miss the blend capability at all.

be prepared, 3 pickups on doesn't give you a massive crazy-articulate sound. it gives you the most compressed sound. it's good, and unique, but not what some expect.

 

[schultheiss]

Thanks for the advices everyone!

Just as I assumed, the 'idea' I had would not work that well in practice. And I don't see any point in going through all the trouble of making said modifications just for it to sound horrible.

I guess the first order of business is to throw those stacked pots out the window

Judging by everything I've read here - the easiest/most sensible solution would be to go with switch(es), a single pot for the volume and a single pot for the tone.

I like the idea that @Malak the Mad mentioned, a 6-way switch that would control every possible combination (except for the all-three-pickups-at-once). That would cover everything, I guess. I know that @micguy said that bridge P pickup soloed is not that great sounding but I guess it doesn't hurt to have it as an option..

But, since im not a fan of those big-ass rotary switches with 6 positions and Jaguar/Bass VI switch panel is not something I'd like to add to a P-bass I have another (potentially stupid) question; would I be able to pull of having a three regular 2-way switches which would control each pickup?

That way I would avoid rotary/jaguar switch or that strat style switch but, in theory, I'd be able to get the same thing? Think of something like G&L L-2000 setup with those mini switches but each switch would turn on/off its pickup.

Would something like that work with a single volume pot and a single tone pot (basically your standard Precision controls)?

 

[Malak the Mad]

But, since im not a fan of those big-ass rotary switches with 6 positions and Jaguar/Bass VI switch panel is not something I'd like to add to a P-bass I have another (potentially stupid) question; would I be able to pull of having a three regular 2-way switches which would control each pickup?

That way I would avoid rotary/jaguar switch or that strat style switch but, in theory, I'd be able to get the same thing? Think of something like G&L L-2000 setup with those mini switches but each switch would turn on/off its pickup.

Would something like that work with a single volume pot and a single tone pot (basically your standard Precision controls)?

Not being an electronics expert, I'd wait until someone else can give a definitive answer, but I'm wondering if you could do the same with three push-pull 500k pots and a single tone pot. Basically, each volume pot would act as an ON/OFF switch for each pickup. It may be "six of one...half a dozen of the other", but if nothing else, four pots and no toggles would make for a cleaner control suite.

 

[Wasnex]

I have a MiM Fender Strat with three pickups. Most Strats use a 5-way switch. The possible pickups combinations:
1,
1,2
2,
2,3
3,

My instrument uses a push button that adds the combinations in bold.
1,
1,3,
1,2,
1,2,3
2,
2,3

If you are interested, the Service Manual can be found here: Deluxe Player Stratocaster Service Manual 0133000 0133002 · Customer Self-Service

 

[micguy]

OK, one more thing to ponder:

Although the idea of a bass with 256 possible sounds (that 's what you get with 8 switches, each of which can have 2 positions) seems like a good thing, having too many available sounds gets in the way of being able to play the thing - between option paralysis and not remembering how to get to the 3 out of 256 sounds that you really like, a bass with too many switches and options is not as useful as you would first think.

So, my suggestion is, before you install all the switches and knobs, put the pickup in the bass, string it up, get some clip leads and try wiring things temporarily - try these 2 pickups in series, try them in parallel, try the out of phase thing, try whatever comes to mind, and see what you like and what you don't. When you know the things you do want, figuring out a circuit that gives you those options with minimal other "clutter" will help get you a bass that has cool sounds, but that is easy to use.

I have wired a lot of basses, and know from experience that the right user interface is better than the user interface with the most options available - I have stood on stage, playing music, staring down at my instrument, and wondering "on this bass, what does this switch do?". That's not a state that's conducive to being a good musician.

Also, if you think you know what you want, but haven't tried it, you will be very surprised, if you hardwire it first and then try it, how many times you'll unsolder and redo things before you're happy with it. Yes, I speak from experience - I have made pretty much all the mistakes at one time or another.

 

[brianrost]

The Franken-P in my avatar picture has three pickups, one volume knob, one tone knob. It’s wired with an on-off toggle for each one, which is the simplest circuit. There’s no way to balance them, luckily the person who did the mods five decades ago picked pickups that balance pretty well with each other.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I used one of the 6-position "Freeway" switches on my Lemmy clone build. It's like a stick-shift, 3 up, 3 down. They have several different wiring diagrams for how it can be configured. Electronics and wiring not my strong suit, if I can do it, anybody can. Mine is set up for pickup switch, master volume and master tone, and I have about every combination I can imagine wanting. it has the advantage of being very simple visually and intuitive in use. The wiring diagrams are fully idiot-proof and color-coded.

Schematics - Free-Way Toggles

Schematic diagrams for Free-Way 3X3-03, 3X3-05, 3X3-07 & 3X3-08 Toggle Switch models. Dimensional templates also provided.

www.freewayswitch.com

 

[Queue]

I used to have a Frankenstein guitar with 3 pickups and a pickup selector switch that had extra options. I know the wiring was sound, as it was done by a guy who built amps for a living. I'll look to see if I can find the diagram.

 

[Dave TB Killer]

If it were my project, I would just put three J pickups on it. A trio of DiMarzio Medel J's would really rip! And all the variations in wiring would keep my soldering iron busy for years.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I’ll toss in another questionable opinion but I’ll start with, it’s your bass and if you really want to try 3 stacked pots, go for it. I’ve done wiring configurations that I figured were questionable but it could also be exactly your sound.

Now, if you’re set on 3 volumes try 3 volumes and a master tone since the individual tone controls will tend to work as masters anyway. You’ll still have additional loading on passive pickups then other options but, again, you may like that sound.

As far as switches, again in my opinion, the best options are: individual on / offs for each pickup and master volume and tone, the freeway switch mentioned above or, also mentioned above and what I like on my Strats or any 3 pickup guitar with a 5 way Strat style switch, wire the 5 way up normally and add a push / pull pot to bring in either the neck or the bridge pickup (your choice) with any switch position which gives all the possible combinations.

 

[rogypop]

Have you thought out the pickup placement? I would do Leland Sklar double P with one more P pickup to fill the space in the middle, all 3 reversed. You would get standard P with middle pickup soloed, deep scooped tone that sits great in the mix with two outer pickups, agressive modern tone with middle and bridge pickups together and deep retro reggae tone with neck pickup soloed.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Thanks, Hank! Sadly, no. I've been working on other parts-basses. That, and doing this one will require a lot of precise routing for the front and back, so I have to be spot-on the first time around.

Quick aside...I will have an "Unveiling" for another parts-bass very soon, though. I just finished Photoshopping and uploading pics to Imgur, so all I have left to do is the write-up. But, as a preview...

That's a beautiful instrument! I'm intrigued and very on-board with the one knob, two switches setup