Help Me Create Weird and Expression Controllable Loops

[Noylin]

Effects brethren, how do I get here:

I want to create weird and changing loops on the fly, using my H9 + expression setup to help me play the initial phrase that gets looped: whatever weirdness I can dream up, pitch bending, infinite reverbs, crazy crystals stuff, et al - I got this part down

into a delay/looper that will capture and repeat, but also give me expression control over parameters of that loop, like speed, volume or decay... the more I can mess with, the better. Preferably with a single expression pedal for both H9 and delay/looper.

...

My initial thought: H9 into Timeline with a Source Audio expression to control both? I'm thinking the timeline could capture the actual phrase, plus a delay of it, and then expression could shape both of those signals. This would open up a bunch of possibilities because expression can control any parameter or combo of Timeline parameters. (But does that include basic looper parameters, like speed or volume?)

The downside here, I think, is that the SA Expression would be controlling both pedals simultaneously, all the time

Or should I be looking at some full featured looper with ability to modify the loop somehow?

p.s. I am currently midi-averse, but I like teaching myself new tricks

 

[Alien8]

I'm not 100% on how this works, but @Adamixoye is probably your best bet.

Here's my guess: use the routing options on the H9 and the TimeLine's effect send / return options to connect the audio signals. This gives you all kinds of routing options so you could use either pedal as the looper or the delay / effect generator or both.

The Reflex is preset based so you can program it to control both or one or part of one. You could also program presets in each pedal (H9, TL) that uses the expression port to do different things AND the MIDI inputs for control. That's a lot of wacky right there.

The combination of both loopers would make things interesting for sure, but would take some time to finesse the techniques.

Maybe there is a better option for a looper out there? I haven't looked at the BOSS stuff, the EHX bigger box loopers give you lots of options too. Pigtronix?

 

[Noylin]

I'm not 100% on how this works, but @Adamixoye is probably your best bet.

Here's my guess: use the routing options on the H9 and the TimeLine's effect send / return options to connect the audio signals. This gives you all kinds of routing options so you could use either pedal as the looper or the delay / effect generator or both.

The Reflex is preset based so you can program it to control both or one or part of one. You could also program presets in each pedal (H9, TL) that uses the expression port to do different things AND the MIDI inputs for control. That's a lot of wacky right there.

The combination of both loopers would make things interesting for sure, but would take some time to finesse the techniques.

Maybe there is a better option for a looper out there? I haven't looked at the BOSS stuff, the EHX bigger box loopers give you lots of options too. Pigtronix?

that's really interesting, I hadn't considered the pre-post routing options on the H9.... crazy Timeline delays into the H9 looper (I do like the reverse looper it has, otherwise it's pretty basic) opens up some new possibilities there too

good to know about the SA expression - but do I need the hub to activate presets for it?

 

[Alien8]

that's really interesting, I hadn't considered the pre-post routing options on the H9.... crazy Timeline delays into the H9 looper (I do like the reverse looper it has, otherwise it's pretty basic) opens up some new possibilities there too

good to know about the SA expression - but do I need the hub to activate presets for it?

I'm not sure, but I don't think so.

 

[Adamixoye]

The Reflex does not need the Hub to do presets. In fact, I think that won't work? I forget where SA is with that, and I've kind of stopped caring about their adventures in software development.

Regardless, there are two other ways you can access Reflex presets---simple PC commands via MIDI (you could use a Mouse or something) or turn and press the knob on the unit. It's actually pretty straightforward.

If I understand what it is you're trying to do, I'm not sure there's much more to it than that. You can use the 1/4" outs of the Reflex for each of the two units, or you could use MIDI. It's just a matter of what you're wanting to do with the loops.

I have my Pigtronix Infinity, it has a lot of things you can control with expression (but expression via MIDI is really best). Ditto X4 would be something else to look at? Or the Boomerang if money was no object? But if you're happy with the looping on the H9 and Timeline (I wasn't happy with the looper on the H9 compared to my Infinity, FWIW), then you could do that. Pre/post routing is also an interesting idea that could open up some ideas.

One last thing...I think there is a way that you wouldn't need the Reflex, but it involves MIDI. The Factor series---and I assume the H9 as well---could taken any expression input and convert it to MIDI to send to another device. So if you already have an expression pedal that works with the H9, you could just get a MIDI cable to connect the H9 and Timeline and have your own poor man's Reflex. Basically, the expression input to the H9 will can be output as a mirrored CC signal to the next thing in the chain. I'm not sure how the Timeline is setup (can you set a single CC for "expression"?) but that could be an option. You would always have the expression for the two units "linked" in that case, but it would be your cheapest and most direct route.

 

[Noylin]

The Reflex does not need the Hub to do presets. In fact, I think that won't work? I forget where SA is with that, and I've kind of stopped caring about their adventures in software development.

Regardless, there are two other ways you can access Reflex presets---simple PC commands via MIDI (you could use a Mouse or something) or turn and press the knob on the unit. It's actually pretty straightforward.

If I understand what it is you're trying to do, I'm not sure there's much more to it than that. You can use the 1/4" outs of the Reflex for each of the two units, or you could use MIDI. It's just a matter of what you're wanting to do with the loops.

I have my Pigtronix Infinity, it has a lot of things you can control with expression (but expression via MIDI is really best). Ditto X4 would be something else to look at? Or the Boomerang if money was no object? But if you're happy with the looping on the H9 and Timeline (I wasn't happy with the looper on the H9 compared to my Infinity, FWIW), then you could do that. Pre/post routing is also an interesting idea that could open up some ideas.

One last thing...I think there is a way that you wouldn't need the Reflex, but it involves MIDI. The Factor series---and I assume the H9 as well---could taken any expression input and convert it to MIDI to send to another device. So if you already have an expression pedal that works with the H9, you could just get a MIDI cable to connect the H9 and Timeline and have your own poor man's Reflex. Basically, the expression input to the H9 will can be output as a mirrored CC signal to the next thing in the chain. I'm not sure how the Timeline is setup (can you set a single CC for "expression"?) but that could be an option. You would always have the expression for the two units "linked" in that case, but it would be your cheapest and most direct route.

That midi send from the h9 idea is really interesting.... I presume the h9 is sending the signal all the time, not just when engaged? I'll look into the timeline and midi... and I could fit a timeline on my current board with the existing expression pedal - not with the SA as the jacks are on the side (it's a tight fit). Thanks!

Thanks!

 

[Dark Barn]

On the Timeline looper I think you can only control the loop volume with expression. The other parameters are binary and would be better controlled with a switch, either from midi, or on the unit, or the tap favorite accessory.

I also don't think there is a decay parameter on the Timeline looper, although there is feedback control for the delays which are accessible while looping.

 

[Noylin]

On the Timeline looper I think you can only control the loop volume with expression. The other parameters are binary and would be better controlled with a switch, either from midi, or on the unit, or the tap favorite accessory.

I also don't think there is a decay parameter on the Timeline looper, although there is feedback control for the delays which are accessible while looping.

That is helpful, thank you. Loop volume would be useful. But the more I think it through, the more I like the ability to control a delay within the loop. There are a lot of possibilities there