Double Bass How loud?

[Jaygetsreal]

I have searched TB for any info on this but cannot find anything.
How loud are acoustic DBs really? We often read about the SPL of cabs which helps us make decisions about what to use for a given venue, but if we want to go acoustic - say for a small club or dinner - there appear to be no numbers we can use.
Has anyone done decibel measurements with various sizes, solid/ply, pizz/arco, string types and different manufacturers?
I know that's a lot of variables but what I'd like to see is a study that concludes something like "A 3/4 ply bass typically produces in the range of 105-110dB when played at normal levels pizzicato. Carved basses offer typically 3dB more."

 

[Don Kasper]

In my experience, my Carved Juzek DB may not be "louder...measured in dB", but sounds (consistently, across many notes/registers) WIDER and DEEPER than other basses... carved or ply.
I believe that simple "???dB" measurement is a simplistic and superficial (and not very useful) data point.
Your SPL may vary.
IMFO, of course.
Thanks.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

IMO, this would be a fool’s errand. There are too many variables. Imagine one bass played by Dennis Irwin as one example and another played by one of the practitioners of the “just tickle the strings with the right hand” approach. What is to be learned from that? That Dennis had a louder and more insistent sound capable of covering the Vanguard big band gig without an amp? So stipulated, your honor. I’ve seen him do it in person, with my bass, no less.

It’s tempting to say that the more relevant question would be “what is the upper acoustic range of the double bass played ( a) pizzicato b) with a bow. ) in decibels.” But even there, I’m not sure the data would reveal much. What other instruments are the basses competing with, and how loud are they playing? Who is playing the other instruments, and under what circumstances? How far from the double bass is the dB measurement being taken from? Then how far from the source are the competing instruments being measured from etc. ad infinitum…

Like I said, it’s complicated.

 

[Don Hergert]

DB and wattage, while considered to be a standard in the lab and by some in real life, really mean very little considering the variety of venues.

I measure my double bass volume by how many stupid loud banjos I can play with in an outside bluegrass jam before I pull out the amplifier. And just threatening to pull out the amplifier tends to help.

Straight on answer, I can play loud enough acoustically (and have done so) to be heard for a 10 to 15 piece bluegrass jam outside, if people are playing sensitively like they should.

 

[Wasnex]

105-110dB "

My suspicion is the level of the double bass is nowhere near this loud.

Here is the results of a study. No idea if it's accurate.

Results, at the average note, were as follows: violin, 85.9 db: viola, 79.5 db: cello, 76.52 db: double bass, 75.97 db.​

Ref: The Loudness of Different Sized Stringed Instruments (usc.edu)

The perceived loudness is even lower due to the Fletcher Munson curve.

 

[salcott]

Instead of obsessing over measurements, I prefer to practice and leave this sort of stuff to the BG side.

 

[g-dude]

My suspicion is the level of the double bass is nowhere near this loud.

Here is the results of a study. No idea if it's accurate.

Results, at the average note, were as follows: violin, 85.9 db: viola, 79.5 db: cello, 76.52 db: double bass, 75.97 db.​

Ref: The Loudness of Different Sized Stringed Instruments (usc.edu)

The perceived loudness is even lower due to the Fletcher Munson curve.

This tracks because I’ve experienced stage volumes in the mid to high 70s and the ability to hear myself drops dramatically.

 

[jj.833]

I'm into graphs. In your considerations, there's a mislead in trying to judge volume by a single number. I know only a little more, so take the following just as a lead on what to look for.

1. SPL of a speaker is measured by using a noise (white nose?) and measuring response of the speaker on all frequencies. So, you put in a signal that is 'of the same volume' on all frequencies, and measure something like this:

I don't know how the SPL is measured from this, but you can surely find some leads in the picture.

2. The frequency response of a double bass looks something like this:

This is a 12 bar blues, many different notes, measured using FFT analysis. The bass 'sounds' somewhere between 55 - 2000 Hz, with energy peak around 80 Hz.

3. The bass doesn not project the same volume in all directions. See this picture:

 

[Wasnex]

@jj.833

AFAIK, the manufacturer decides how to interpret the response. If this driver was used for mids, 92.7dB seems pretty valid. If driver was used for solely upright bass, IMHO 92.7dB seems a bit optimistic. That does not mean a company would not do it.

I believe the figures I provided in post #5 are averages of many notes.

If you played over the range of low E to the octave on the G string (40hz to 196hz). Perhaps you could take the average of the SPL across the range of played notes. You may even include up to the second harmonic (392hz) if the energy is high enough. Of course you would need to use the average power generated by the notes, and throw out the nulls between all of the notes. Not certain, but I believe this would relate to something called frequency smoothing.

 

[GlenParks]

'Raise action, pull harder, play in tune"

Playing outdoors with 5-9 other instruments. These recommendations from TB have served well. Not always true, like anything else here. But fairly sound advice. That said, I wouldn't know how to translate decibel information to practical use in a given space.

 

[Bruce Calin]

One of the bassists in my community orchestra brought an SPL meter to a rehearsal once and was periodically checking it while we were playing to see the different levels. I finally had to tell him to put it away and play better. It was a big distraction and a bigger waste of time.

 

[John Le Guyader]

DB and wattage, while considered to be a standard in the lab and by some in real life, really mean very little considering the variety of venues.

I measure my double bass volume by how many stupid loud banjos I can play with in an outside bluegrass jam before I pull out the amplifier. And just threatening to pull out the amplifier tends to help.

Straight on answer, I can play loud enough acoustically (and have done so) to be heard for a 10 to 15 piece bluegrass jam outside, if people are playing sensitively like they should.

Do you think your aluminum bass throws more sound than one in wood (carved or laminate).

 

[John Le Guyader]

To me, the issue boils down to being able to clearly hear my bass and everyone else playing adequately. Unamplified, I’m left with the sound my upright can throw given the instrument, strings, how hard I’m pizzing, etc. I don’t really know what it sounds like out there…I think same can be said when playing upright amplified and playing electric. All I can hear is what sounds waves are proximate to me when playing bass. I only presume out there it sounds different, and wish there were an easy way to hear it. And, I guess it’s a whole different ball of wax if you use in-ear monitors.

 

[Don Hergert]

Do you think your aluminum bass throws more sound than one in wood (carved or laminate).

The way it's setup now, I don't know, but I haven't had volume struggles with it with the current string mix, ever...

It has had acoustic paint applied on the inside back table to reduce metallic tone. It has a powder coat finish, which also reduces metallic tone. I'm using synthetic strings, which goes a big step further to reduce metallic tone. At this point, its tone is just about the same as a wooden double bass using metal strings, which is where I like it. But all three of these tone related setup options potentially also reduce volume.

As mentioned before though, its volume is sufficient to be heard in a sensitive jam up to 15 or so players, maybe more if I hit it harder. Outside, it carries a long way.

At the same time, it's fully setup with a stereo bridge wing and fingerboard piezo set, feeding into an onboard pre-amp for high amp'ed volume, plus it has a mounted mic for more sensitive tone plugged-in situations. So I've got a lot of options with it.

We'll be using my Alcoa with our band on stage at the SummerGrass bluegrass festival in Vista California for the Sunday morning Gospel hour again this August. Our band is very good about sensitive volume, so I'll most likely just use the mounted mic feeding into the FOH.

 

[sean_on_bass]

If you put your ear right up to the F-Holes, it will damage your hearing. It's that loud.