How Risky is it to Run a 4 ohm Amp at 3 or 3.5 ohms??

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I have a 6 ohm 310 and just ordered a second one (Berg HG310). I know I can run them in series for a 12 ohm load and then use them with virtually any SS amp.

The amps I have are only rated down to 4 ohms. Is this similar to the situation with watts in that you can overpower a cab so long as you use good judgement and common sense? Can I hook them up in parallel for a 3 ohm load and not worry about my amps going up in smoke if I don't push too hard?

Also, what about pairing with an 8 ohm cab (Markbass combo amp) which would result in a 3.5 ohm load?

GK tells me I should be ok with my Fusion 800, but the protection circuits may kick in if it's pushed.

I'm sure @agedhorse has some thoughts on this.
 
As the impedance (load) goes down, the current goes up. That means there's more electrons flowing through the circuit, and there's friction involved with that electron flow. So everything heats up. You might be OK. It might kick in the overload protection. You might cause circuit components to heat up so their life is shortened a little, or shortened a lot. Or it might erupt in the blue flame of death with that peculiar smell of burnt resistors and transistors that also smells of money being being burned. It's NOT the same as overpowering a speaker because in the case of overpowering a speaker you can use caution and your ears to tell you if the speakers are being over extended. You likely won't hear anything wrong with the amp seeing a load that's below its rated minimum.
 
I have a 6 ohm 310 and just ordered a second one (Berg HG310). I know I can run them in series for a 12 ohm load and then use them with virtually any SS amp.

The amps I have are only rated down to 4 ohms. Is this similar to the situation with watts in that you can overpower a cab so long as you use good judgement and common sense? Can I hook them up in parallel for a 3 ohm load and not worry about my amps going up in smoke if I don't push too hard?

Also, what about pairing with an 8 ohm cab (Markbass combo amp) which would result in a 3.5 ohm load?

With music, frequencies vary all over the place. Impedance is frequency sensitive, therefore impedance is all over the place. As long as you avoid the frequencies that cause the load to drop lower than 4 Ohms, you'll be OK. ;)
 
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As the impedance (load) goes down, the current goes up. That means there's more electrons flowing through the circuit, and there's friction involved with that electron flow. So everything heats up. You might be OK. It might kick in the overload protection. You might cause circuit components to heat up so their life is shortened a little, or shortened a lot. Or it might erupt in the blue flame of death with that peculiar smell of burnt resistors and transistors that also smells of money being being burned. It's NOT the same as overpowering a speaker because in the case of overpowering a speaker you can use caution and your ears to tell you if the speakers are being over extended. You likely won't hear anything wrong with the amp seeing a load that's below its rated minimum.

Yes. The friction makes the electrons go slower. Since different frequencies have different wavelengths, some of the electrons may arrive later than others and your harmonics will be out of sync with your fundamentals. ;)
 
I sold a Hartke HA-4000 to My friends son for pretty cheap. It was rated down to 4 Ohm but he Rehearsed and gigged heavily with it at 2 Ohms for about 2 years.

That's a Hartke though. I would never recommend it but Obviously that head was over-engineered.
 
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I am no sort of expert on this, but I do know that the actual, measured impedance of nominally 8 Ohm cabs varies significantly. Brand A's 2x10 might measure ~7 Ohms while Brand B's might measure ~5.5 Ohms. Impedance will vary with frequency, too (you might have a dip at a certain frequency). Manufacturers account for this and build some safety margin into their amps. If your nominally 6 Ohm 3x10s measure very much on the high side (like if they're actually 6 Ohms), it's possible that you'd be okay -- you might end up with an effective load similar to that of two "low" 8 Ohm cabs. The design of your amp and how hard you're pushing it would play a role, too. If, on the other hand, your cabs measure average or on the low side for nominally 6 Ohm cabs, you'd be putting more stress on your amp than it's designed to take. How it would react to that stress, in the short or in the long term, I can't say. I wouldn't assume that it would be okay.

If I were interested in doing this, I would contact the amp maker, as you have with GK, and I would contact Jim Bergantino, to see what he has to say about running two HG 310s in this situation. If I got the green light from both, I would still proceed cautiously, at least at first, monitoring my amp for excessive heat, high fan activity, etc. This is assuming that you're still within (or at least close to) the amp's safe operating margins and that undue stress will show itself with the amp running hot, etc. There may be some mode of failure that doesn't warn of itself that way -- I don't know.

I don't think I'd run the Markbass combo's internal speaker with the Berg 3x10, but, again, you could ask and you could try. You might void the warranty with either amp, running this way -- worth asking GK/Markbass that, too.

You might find that the GK amp has enough power running the cabs in series to do what you want.

Other possibilities: Run the amp as a front end into a separate power amp (a rack unit or a small standalone rated below 4 Ohms), slave another amp/poweramp to run the second cab, or get an amp that will go below 4 Ohms.

Please note that I'm not encouraging anyone to go below the rated load on their amps. I invite more knowledgeable heads to fill-in or correct anything I might have missed.
 
Your amp headroom also gets eaten away in going lower with cab impedance.
Or consider that you will have to turn you amp down enough to compensate for a lower impedance than designed. You may not be any better off with 3 ohms and turned down than running full tilt into on 6 Ohm load.
Imagine 5 is the new 10.
 
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I am no sort of expert on this, but I do know that the actual, measured impedance of nominally 8 Ohm cabs varies significantly. Brand A's 2x10 might measure ~7 Ohms while Brand B's might measure ~5.5 Ohms.

Please note that I'm not encouraging anyone to go below the rated load on their amps. I invite more knowledgeable heads to fill-in or correct anything I might have missed.

Please do not confuse the DC resistance of a speaker, that which you measure with an Ohm meter (multi-meter), with speaker impedance.
The speaker impedance rating is not the same as the DC resistance of the voice coils.
Resistance, Ohms are measured at DC.
Impedance, Ohms are a function of the AC frequencies in use.
Measuring speaker impedance is a rather complicated matter requiring more specialized equipment than just an Ohm meter.

A speaker will present it's rated impedance at only one frequency.
As you apply frequencies that vary from that one frequency, the impedance will change.
A speaker's instantaneous impedance can vary greatly, perhaps in hundreds of Ohms.
The speaker rating is always what the speaker rating is. If it is an 8 Ohm speaker, you cannot say it us anything but 8 Ohms. In that sense, there is no variation in the impedance from its rating.
You might think of it like an average, but average is neither technically or mathematically correct.

When the manufacturer rates a speaker impedance, it is called Nominal Impedance.
Nominal being defined as "by name only."
It is used as a measuring stick for matching with an amps.
Any time you use something beyond it's recommended specs, you risk operating it in a way that it was not intened by the designer.
 
Good question with a more complicated answer than you might expect... (of course)

So talking about class D amps with SMPS (since that seems to be what the question is about), heat is only one factor that needs to be considered. Heat is caused by the average output current, and that will be higher with a lower output impedance.

BUT, there is also limitations on the output current that can be sourced/sinked, and this is often a bigger cause of problems because you do not know what the actual impedance of the speaker is. NOMINAL impedance is the specification that is listed in the specs., and designers of amps need to understand that nominal is some form of average of the impedance versus frequency curve since impedance IS different at different frequencies, sometimes higher, sometimes lower. The problem is that the peak current might occur (actually is LIKELY to occur) at the frequencies where the impedance is the lowest and this can cause big problems.

Most amp designers factor this into the peak current versus thermal load calculations, and each uses different weighting factors in order to come up with a reliable product. When your cabinet combination calculates to below nominal impedance load, this also means that the minimum impedance will be even lower which can endanger the amp. I would NOT recommend doing so, because the damage that is caused becomes quite costly very quickly.
 
Please do not confuse the DC resistance of a speaker, that which you measure with an Ohm meter (multi-meter), with speaker impedance.
The speaker impedance rating is not the same as the DC resistance of the voice coils.
Resistance, Ohms are measured at DC.
Impedance, Ohms are a function of the AC frequencies in use.
Measuring speaker impedance is a rather complicated matter requiring more specialized equipment than just an Ohm meter.

A speaker will present it's rated impedance at only one frequency.
As you apply frequencies that vary from that one frequency, the impedance will change.
A speaker's instantaneous impedance can vary greatly, perhaps in hundreds of Ohms.
The speaker rating is always what the speaker rating is. If it is an 8 Ohm speaker, you cannot say it us anything but 8 Ohms. In that sense, there is no variation in the impedance from its rating.
You might think of it like an average, but average is neither technically or mathematically correct.

When the manufacturer rates a speaker impedance, it is called Nominal Impedance.
Nominal being defined as "by name only."
It is used as a measuring stick for matching with an amps.
Any time you use something beyond it's recommended specs, you risk operating it in a way that it was not intened by the designer.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I did confuse/conflate resistance with impedance. I will cogitate on this.

Resistance (in Ohms) is tied to DC, Impedance (also in Ohms) to AC.

Resistance is constant (barring possible fluctuations with heat, etc.), Impedance variable.

Music is a collection of oscillating signals of varying frequencies... represented electrically, this would be alternating current (of varying frequencies)... impedance would vary with the frequency. If you take a sine wave and reduce the frequency until you reach zero Hz, you pass from AC to DC (non-oscillating current), then, correct? Resistance seems, then, a sort of "frozen" Impedance... it seems that there must be some relationship between the two, though I'll grant that it might not be direct or intuitively grasped.

Linguistically, it's confusing, as "to impede" and "to resist" mean much the same thing in normal parlance. I think I might actually manage to keep them straight now, thanks.

Is a resistor in an AC circuit still a resistor, then? Does this variation in impedance only apply to loudspeakers and other electrically similar components -- whatever they might be? Is this what people are referring to when they speak of "reactive loads" -- a load with impedance that varies with the frequency of the applied signal? That would seem to jive with folks saying that a tube amp reacts differently to a simple dummy load/power-soak than it does to a real speaker...

Just trying to wrap my head around all this.

Good question with a more complicated answer than you might expect... (of course)

So talking about class D amps with SMPS (since that seems to be what the question is about), heat is only one factor that needs to be considered. Heat is caused by the average output current, and that will be higher with a lower output impedance.

BUT, there is also limitations on the output current that can be sourced/sinked, and this is often a bigger cause of problems because you do not know what the actual impedance of the speaker is. NOMINAL impedance is the specification that is listed in the specs., and designers of amps need to understand that nominal is some form of average of the impedance versus frequency curve since impedance IS different at different frequencies, sometimes higher, sometimes lower. The problem is that the peak current might occur (actually is LIKELY to occur) at the frequencies where the impedance is the lowest and this can cause big problems.

Most amp designers factor this into the peak current versus thermal load calculations, and each uses different weighting factors in order to come up with a reliable product. When your cabinet combination calculates to below nominal impedance load, this also means that the minimum impedance will be even lower which can endanger the amp. I would NOT recommend doing so, because the damage that is caused becomes quite costly very quickly.

Okay, so when folks refer to a "high" or "low" 8 Ohm cab, are they talking about the DC resistance of the voice coils, or the nominal impedance (measured at X Hertz) of the speaker? Is there a relationship between the two? Is there a standard for how nominal impedance is determined -- is it always measured at a certain frequency, for instance? -- and is nominal impedance always some "neat" number (4 Ohms, 8 Ohms) or are there speakers with 5.3 Ohms nominal impedance, 6.7 Ohms nominal impedance, etc.?
 
Thanks for the clarification. I guess I did confuse/conflate resistance with impedance. I will cogitate on this.

Resistance (in Ohms) is tied to DC, Impedance (also in Ohms) to AC.

Resistance is constant (barring possible fluctuations with heat, etc.), Impedance variable.

Music is a collection of oscillating signals of varying frequencies... represented electrically, this would be alternating current (of varying frequencies)... impedance would vary with the frequency. If you take a sine wave and reduce the frequency until you reach zero Hz, you pass from AC to DC (non-oscillating current), then, correct? Resistance seems, then, a sort of "frozen" Impedance... it seems that there must be some relationship between the two, though I'll grant that it might not be direct or intuitively grasped.

Linguistically, it's confusing, as "to impede" and "to resist" mean much the same thing in normal parlance. I think I might actually manage to keep them straight now, thanks.

Is a resistor in an AC circuit still a resistor, then? Does this variation in impedance only apply to loudspeakers and other electrically similar components -- whatever they might be? Is this what people are referring to when they speak of "reactive loads" -- a load with impedance that varies with the frequency of the applied signal? That would seem to jive with folks saying that a tube amp reacts differently to a simple dummy load/power-soak than it does to a real speaker...

Just trying to wrap my head around all this.



Okay, so when folks refer to a "high" or "low" 8 Ohm cab, are they talking about the DC resistance of the voice coils, or the nominal impedance (measured at X Hertz) of the speaker? Is there a relationship between the two? Is there a standard for how nominal impedance is determined -- is it always measured at a certain frequency, for instance? -- and is nominal impedance always some "neat" number (4 Ohms, 8 Ohms) or are there speakers with 5.3 Ohms nominal impedance, 6.7 Ohms nominal impedance, etc.?

That's a nice piece of cogitation.

Impedance gets even more complicated.
Resistance and impedance both oppose (resist) the flow of current.
Resistance is defined as opposing the flow of Direct Current.
Impedance is the opposition to Alternating Current flow.

There are related electrical properties called Reactances and they come in two flavors, Capacitive Reactance and Inductive Reactance. Together they make up Impedance.

If you have an inductance such as a voice coil, and apply an alternating current it will have Inductive Reactance.
Likewise, a capacitor will have it's own capacitive reactance.
They both and oppose the flow of current in values relative to frequency.
The two work in opposition to each other.

A cool feature is that when both reactances are equal and the circuit is said to be resonant, and magic stuff happens at resonance. Almost all things in electronics depends on the reactance relationships in the circuits.
Radio and TV and a lot of other things would not work if it were not for the resonance effect.

The impedance of a circuit changes with frequency because the capacitive and inductive reactances change with frequency.

A resistor is a pure resistance at DC. But a resistor in an AC circuit will become more rreactive as you move higher in frequency.
So an impedance usually has at least some degree of the two reactances as well as resistance.
Your eight Ohm driver is a special balance of the two reactances and the resistance.
Your 4 Ohm speaker is just built a little differently to balance how all the reactances and resistances work together to make the impedance.

At radio frequencies a resistor might not act very much like a resistor.
Often, in radio circuits you have to use capacitors and inductors together to do the work that a resistor does at DC or very low frequencies.

In dummy loads or power soaks, those are often made to be mostly resistive.
Those resistors might be built in special ways to minimize their reactance.
Thus it will present an equal load across the audio spectrum to an amp under test, or being used without soeakers.
They do this for radio as well, building special non-inductive resistors for transmitter dummy loads.

Some of the math involved with impedances involves what the math whizzes call Imaginary Numbers. That's the point where I jump ship 'cause it's way over my head to think about, let alone try to explain.