How to choose an onboard Preamp

[superheavyfunk]

There are dozens of different aftermarket preamps available out there these days, and many of them come in different combinations/number of knobs, etc. How do you all choose which preamp to go with?

I've been scouring the web lately, watching videos, reading reviews and threads about all sorts of preamps, matched with every type of bass and pickup and truth be told, in the end, it's less helpful than it is overwhelming. With the exception of a Ray34, I've always owned passive basses but I've played quite a few active ones. My favourite ever was a Sandberg VM4... it blew my mind in terms of tone and feel but was out of my price range at the time. Ever since then, I've thought about putting a Glock pre into one of my basses and I think I've finally decided to drop something into my early 90's passive Warwick bass.

The trouble is that even with all of the different basses and preamps, I still can't find a good video of a Warwick with a Glock preamp... there are a couple but they're not a "review" or anything - they don't show what the preamp can do and what it sounds like with these basses.

Anyway, getting back to the point, how did you all choose which aftermarket pre to install? And what did you do if you found that you didn't like the tone in the end? I'm really hesitant to drop $200-$300 on a preamp, only to find out that I don't dig it and then have to take a loss IF I can resell the thing.

In case anybody is wondering, the bass I'm considering modifying is a 1993 Warwick Fortress R&B. It has an Ash body, Wenge neck, and a PJ configuration. You can see pics here... scroll down to post#5: Warwick Fortress R&B - Reasonable Price?

 

[line6man]

IMHO, if you don't already know exactly what you want, then you don't need to buy anything at all. And much less do you need to throw $200-$300 at overpriced boutique preamps, when a quality preamp can be had for considerably less.

 

[superheavyfunk]

IMHO, if you don't already know exactly what you want, then you don't need to buy anything at all. And much less do you need to throw $200-$300 at overpriced boutique preamps, when a quality preamp can be had for considerably less.

I know what I want. I asked how YOU chose one out of the pack.

And how about a suggestion of a quality preamp for considerably less? That'd be helpful.

 

[loopee]

IMHO, if you don't already know exactly what you want, then you don't need to buy anything at all. And much less do you need to throw $200-$300 at overpriced boutique preamps, when a quality preamp can be had for considerably less.

so....which quality preamps would you be referring to?

 

[SteveCS]

@superHEAVYfunk . Good question. I've been looking at a few recently, including East, Bartolini, Glockenklang and Aguilar. My ideal is something with semi-parametric mids and dual volume (not volume/blend), preferably adjustable centres for bass and treble, and that will fit into the 5 holes that I currently have. The reality is there is nothing that quite does what I want.

There are also, I think, a few gotcha's...

• The Treble frequencies are all over the shop - Glock comes in at ±18dB@18kHz! and Bart comes in at ±16dB@10kHz - both of these seem remarkably high to me, especially the Glock;
• The Aguilar OPB1 looks interesting, but is boost only - no cut. Only the OPB3 has a mid control, but it is switchable 400Hz or 800Hz - no sweep;
• The Darkglass looks to have sensible treble voicing (±[email protected]) but the bass is ±12@70Hz, which might be a bit high. Also the mid is fixed at 500Hz;

The only one that looks useful and flexible is the East Uni. The centres of Bass and Treble can be adjusted internally over wide ranges, and the mid-sweep is 100Hz-2.5kHz. There is a passive option and bright switch that make it even more flexible. Downside - by default it is volume/blend and really want to stick with two volume controls.

I keep asking myself...

• Would I like an on-board preamp? In principle, yes.
• Do I really need a full-blown preamp? Maybe not, but I do feel a need for a semi-parametric mid control and it looks like the only way to get that is to get the rest of it.

Even after asking these questions and looking at the available options, I'm still undecided.

My real problem is that I like the tones I get from my bass and I'm really only looking to enhance it with a bit more control over the mids. Perhaps if I was desperately unhappy with what I have I would be more driven to decide, but as things stand I'm not convinced that I can get what I want without losing much of what I already have.

Probably not the response you were looking for, but maybe in answering your question I have found my own answer - I'll probably leave things alone for the time being.

 

[ex-tension]

...My ideal is something with semi-parametric mids...

...but I do feel a need for a semi-parametric mid control and it looks like the only way to get that is to get the rest of it.

Even after asking these questions and looking at the available options, I'm still undecided.
...I'm really only looking to enhance it with a bit more control over the mids.
...I'm not convinced that I can get what I want without losing much of what I already have.

It's not an onboard solution but did you know about this box?
EWS BMC (Bass Mid Control) Pedal
New EWS BMC 2 - Worth the added gain boost switch and volume control?

 

[SteveCS]

It's not an onboard solution but did you know about this box?
EWS BMC (Bass Mid Control) Pedal
New EWS BMC 2 - Worth the added gain boost switch and volume control?

Hmmm. On board is really a deal breaker. I wonder if the board is small enough to fit inside the bass once the jacks and stuff are removed? Then again it's $180...

 

[line6man]

so....which quality preamps would you be referring to?

Aguilar, EMG, Nordstrand, Seymour Duncan, Bartolini, etc. all make great preamps.

 

[superheavyfunk]

@superHEAVYfunk . Good question. I've been looking at a few recently, including East, Bartolini, Glockenklang and Aguilar. My ideal is something with semi-parametric mids and dual volume (not volume/blend), preferably adjustable centres for bass and treble, and that will fit into the 5 holes that I currently have. The reality is there is nothing that quite does what I want.

There are also, I think, a few gotcha's...

• The Treble frequencies are all over the shop - Glock comes in at ±18dB@18kHz! and Bart comes in at ±16dB@10kHz - both of these seem remarkably high to me, especially the Glock;
• The Aguilar OPB1 looks interesting, but is boost only - no cut. Only the OPB3 has a mid control, but it is switchable 400Hz or 800Hz - no sweep;
• The Darkglass looks to have sensible treble voicing (±[email protected]) but the bass is ±12@70Hz, which might be a bit high. Also the mid is fixed at 500Hz;

The only one that looks useful and flexible is the East Uni. The centres of Bass and Treble can be adjusted internally over wide ranges, and the mid-sweep is 100Hz-2.5kHz. There is a passive option and bright switch that make it even more flexible. Downside - by default it is volume/blend and really want to stick with two volume controls.

I keep asking myself...

• Would I like an on-board preamp? In principle, yes.
• Do I really need a full-blown preamp? Maybe not, but I do feel a need for a semi-parametric mid control and it looks like the only way to get that is to get the rest of it.

Even after asking these questions and looking at the available options, I'm still undecided.

My real problem is that I like the tones I get from my bass and I'm really only looking to enhance it with a bit more control over the mids. Perhaps if I was desperately unhappy with what I have I would be more driven to decide, but as things stand I'm not convinced that I can get what I want without losing much of what I already have.

Probably not the response you were looking for, but maybe in answering your question I have found my own answer - I'll probably leave things alone for the time being.

Thanks for your thoughts, @SteveCS and thanks for the suggestion of the East Uni - I'd never heard of that pre. It seems like it'd be perfect for my needs, as I don't really mind having a blend, but geez, that thing is CAD$360. That's just... insane. I'm beginning to sweat, just thinking about shelling that kinda cash out for something that I have no way of trying before buying. lol. I LOVE that the centres are adjustable, though. That may make it worth the investment alone, since it can be tailored in almost anyway that suits me bass and style, or even the strings I choose to use!

Your point about the frequencies being all over the place is precisely what I mean about trying to find "reviews" of preamps. There are whole sites devoted to reviewing every new iteration of a jazz or precision, compressors, and fuzz but I can't seem to find one that focuses on preamps. Seems like a niche that should have been exploited a long time ago.

I'm not sure how the shelf in the Glock works but it really sounded great in that Sandberg I played. It added air but didn't sound too clanky and more importantly for my needs, the fact that the bass and the treble were both boost and cut totally sealed the deal for me.

 

[superheavyfunk]

Thanks for your thoughts, @SteveCS and thanks for the suggestion of the East Uni - I'd never heard of that pre. It seems like it'd be perfect for my needs, as I don't really mind having a blend, but geez, that thing is CAD$360. That's just... insane. I'm beginning to sweat, just thinking about shelling that kinda cash out for something that I have no way of trying before buying. lol. I LOVE that the centres are adjustable, though. That may make it worth the investment alone, since it can be tailored in almost anyway that suits me bass and style, or even the strings I choose to use!

Actually, having just looked closer at the details of the UNI-PRE 4, I can't see any reason why I shouldn't just buy this thing. It's got two pickup gain trims, option to have bass boost/cut or boost only, option to set bass upper AND lower frequency as well as the treble freq, and the option to have it set flat at the centre detent, or have a "gentle lift at the lower and higher frequencies, peaking +4dBs at 40Hz & 10kHz."

Wowzers! Now, I just have to try to find a decent demo of this thing.

Aguilar, EMG, Nordstrand, Seymour Duncan, Bartolini, etc. all make great preamps.

...yeah, thanks.

 

[4StringTheorist]

And how about a suggestion of a quality preamp for considerably less? That'd be helpful.

If you're comfortable soldering your own potentiometers, the Nordstrand 2b 2-band and Nordstrand 3b 3-band are both available for a nice price. A great preamp at an affordable price.

 

[superheavyfunk]

If you're comfortable soldering your own potentiometers, the Nordstrand 2b 2-band and Nordstrand 3b 3-band are both available for a nice price. A great preamp at an affordable price.

Hey thanks. I looked at those guys. They do sound pretty good... I'm comfortable with a soldering iron in terms of being confident that I won't burn myself but I'd definitely prefer something that comes pre-wired.

Have you used this pre? What do you think about it, and what made you choose it over any other the other ones?

 

[two fingers]

Many of the famous onboard preamps are available as pedals. If you have a larger store in your area perhaps you could test drive a few that way.

 

[sheltjo6]

My experience with internal preamps is limited. With the Euro Spector bass I used to own, it came with an EMG BTS pre, which was ok, but the pre did not sound like a Haz preamp, which I wanted in order to get that "Spector growl." I tried a tone pump and a haz clone preamps.

The only other preamps I've used were an EMG BQC and BTC. I chose them solely because the basses had EMG pickups installed.

Ironically, after testing the preamps listed above and a few pedals, I've gone back to just having a standard tone control to roll off the treble on most of my basses. I can dial in a better tone using my amps eq and most studios have equipment that is far superior to any onboard preamp.
Also, 90% of your tone comes from your fingers. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[4StringTheorist]

Have you used this pre? What do you think about it, and what made you choose it over any other the other ones?

Yeah, I've got the 3b in my bass now. After a lot of reading of this forum and a bit of YouTube cruising of people showing the EQ adjustments some of the preamps had available, I narrowed it down to liking the Nordstrand 3b or the Aguilar OBP-3, especially with the switchable mid you can wire in on either one.

Some folks here talked glowingly of the OBP-3, but said that you have to be quite delicate with the bass knob, because it's just overwhelmingly too much if you crank it. I rather like having the whole range be usable, the Nordstrand 3b was less expensive, so there I went. I've been quite happy indeed with my choice.

 

[rojo412]

I have tried a bunch of preamps in my days, in all kinds of different basses. How I chose them was either the reviews people posted here, the hype that they were advertised with, or because they came with a particular bass I bought. And now that I think of it, some were because it's the only thing that fit.
(FWIW, I've had EMG, East, Bart, stock no-name stuff, Fender, Sadowsky, Nordstrand, MEC, Aguilar, Audere, ACG, Musicman... probably some others, but these were the major ones)

You may say East is pricey and you're right. But in my experiences, the East preamps are WORTH IT! Of every preamp I've ever tried ever, the East preamps win hands down. I'm not alone in my assessment of that either, you can find a lot of people willing to back me up on that. Just ask @rogerbmiller what it did for his Modulus!

"But for $350, you could buy a whole new bass!" some people say.
To those people, I say that the new bass won't be nearly as cool as this preamp. It won't play as nice as the bass you love that needs a preamp. And if you really want the best from the bass you love, you'll be very happy with the preamp.

A coworker used to say "The quality is remembered long after the price has been forgotten." This is so true with the East stuff. I have spent a lot over the years on these preamps in separate projects, bought both new and used, but one thing I never regretted was having those preamps in the bass they were in.

And if it helps at all, East does make a simple Bass/Treble stack that can be added to stock electronics (BTB-01). You could put that in place of one of the tones, have a passive tone as well, and have a lot of goodness added to your setup for significantly less.
You could opt for the Mid only setup for a little less and it will allow you to make more drastic changes to the sound, as it has a mid frequency sweep function.

But ultimately, the only way to really decide is to try them and see what they do. I've tried a lot of preamps and hated them. People elsewhere loved them and that's fine, but the only one who could make the call in the end is me.

Good luck with your search!

 

[fast slapper]

Pretty convincing endorsement for East...how's the hiss level with the treble control in flat position?

 

[rogerbmiller]

I have tried a bunch of preamps in my days, in all kinds of different basses. How I chose them was either the reviews people posted here, the hype that they were advertised with, or because they came with a particular bass I bought. And now that I think of it, some were because it's the only thing that fit.
(FWIW, I've had EMG, East, Bart, stock no-name stuff, Fender, Sadowsky, Nordstrand, MEC, Aguilar, Audere, ACG, Musicman... probably some others, but these were the major ones)

You may say East is pricey and you're right. But in my experiences, the East preamps are WORTH IT! Of every preamp I've ever tried ever, the East preamps win hands down. I'm not alone in my assessment of that either, you can find a lot of people willing to back me up on that. Just ask @rogerbmiller what it did for his Modulus!

"But for $350, you could buy a whole new bass!" some people say.
To those people, I say that the new bass won't be nearly as cool as this preamp. It won't play as nice as the bass you love that needs a preamp. And if you really want the best from the bass you love, you'll be very happy with the preamp.

A coworker used to say "The quality is remembered long after the price has been forgotten." This is so true with the East stuff. I have spent a lot over the years on these preamps in separate projects, bought both new and used, but one thing I never regretted was having those preamps in the bass they were in.

And if it helps at all, East does make a simple Bass/Treble stack that can be added to stock electronics (BTB-01). You could put that in place of one of the tones, have a passive tone as well, and have a lot of goodness added to your setup for significantly less.
You could opt for the Mid only setup for a little less and it will allow you to make more drastic changes to the sound, as it has a mid frequency sweep function.

But ultimately, the only way to really decide is to try them and see what they do. I've tried a lot of preamps and hated them. People elsewhere loved them and that's fine, but the only one who could make the call in the end is me.

Good luck with your search!

I agree with all this regarding @John East preamps. Worth every penny. I have put 2 j retro DLX Pres in two of my MIM jazz deluxe Vs. results were fantastic.

And the u retro transformed my modulus. It was going to the glue factory and then @rojo412 convinced me to drop an east in there. Problem solved.

I am currently seeking a uni pre to drop in a Dimension V MIM. Even though these cost as much as a bass, it really is a case of 1+1=11. Just keep your stock preamp so you can use the pre as your bass changes and it is a great investment.

These have been a game changer for me. Nothing comes close for me.

 

[rojo412]

Pretty convincing endorsement for East...how's the hiss level with the treble control in flat position?

None in anything I've had.
Like any other preamp, shielding is necessary and all of my basses have been properly shielded. But as for an audible hiss from it, there has never been one. Even with the treble boosted and the high boost engaged, it was very well behaved.

I have heard other preamps not behaving as well. I was all about getting a Noll preamp, but was told by a trusted source that it suffered from signal hiss. So I opted out of that!

 

[superheavyfunk]

Man, you all have really got me convinced to take a pass on he glockenklang and go for the East pre instead. This almost doubles what I was expecting to spend but I imagine that -if- I do decide to turn it around, I might not lose much at all if I sell it here on TB. Thanks for the great suggestion and rousing endorsement!

For anyone passing by and reading this thread, I still think that it's pertinent information if we discuss the how's and whys of which aftermarket preamp you chose to go with when you made your purchase. I'm certain there's a bunch of people who are on the same confusing search as I have been.