Ibanez mono bridge action too high - what can I do?

Cyril_23

Cyril_23

Sep 13, 2016
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Paris, France
#1
Got a second hand SR1305. B string action is very high, even though saddle is already bottomed. What can I do?
- action is about 3mm+ at 24th fret
- Neck is perfectly straight, <1mm in the middle when fretting 1st and last frets
- When fretting 17-20th fret, action on 24th fret is still very high
- High strings have no issue

Tried sanding both the neck and body part of the joint, and tried shimming with a business card. Works, but:
- The end of the neck is now a bit higher than the body at the joint
- And it doesn't fully solve the problem. action is 2-3mm-ish when saddle is bottomed
 
#2
Neck relief should be way less than 1mm, also 2 mm is fairly low action, while 3mm is fairly high (though exactly where and how do you measure the action? This is measured from bottom of lowest/thicket string to top of 12th fret, without fretting anywhere), and yes, less than 1mm does make a huge difference in terms of playability.

Also I don't see what the issue is with the neck sitting higher than the body, it usually does on most basses, even without a shim.

Finally the shim is supposed to only cover the back of the neck pocket (towards the bridge), so that you lower the overall string angle, and thereby action towards the end of the neck.

And a cardboard business card is not the ideal shim as it'll compress over time.

How is the nut slots cut, are they by any chance cut too high?
 
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#3
Ritter667 said:
Also I don't see what the issue is with the neck sitting higher than the body, it usually does on most basses, even without a shim.
Click to expand...
On Soundgear basses (as well as other brands) the neck heel extends beyond the fretboard and tapers to flush with the top of the body:
1725795987286.png

So shimming the neck is not as seamless as on Fender-style neck joints: It leaves the taper standing above the body surface. That said, the problem is purely cosmetic, there's no harm in doing it until a better approach presents itself.
 
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#4
Cyril_YU said:
Got a second hand SR1305. B string action is very high, even though saddle is already bottomed. What can I do?
- action is about 3mm+ at 24th fret
- Neck is perfectly straight, <1mm in the middle when fretting 1st and last frets
- When fretting 17-20th fret, action on 24th fret is still very high
- High strings have no issue

Tried sanding both the neck and body part of the joint, and tried shimming with a business card. Works, but:
- The end of the neck is now a bit higher than the body at the joint
- And it doesn't fully solve the problem. action is 2-3mm-ish when saddle is bottomed
Click to expand...

We really need a side-shot of the B saddle assembly...mine is sitting ~3 mm above the base plate.

Riis
 
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#6
dabbler said:
or use strings that taper the B string before it gets to the saddle.
Click to expand...
I don't see how that is supposed to lower the string action.

And if you mean taper after or beyond the saddle, then that is bound to create all kinds of intonation issues, and as such isn't really a viable solution either.
And in any case would only effect the action of the B string, and not the overall action of the strings.

It did however get me thinking and wondering about how OP's B string witness point at the saddle looks?
 
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#7
Ritter667 said:
I don't see how that is supposed to lower the string action.

And if you mean taper after or beyond the saddle, then that is bound to create all kinds of intonation issues, and as such isn't really a viable solution either.
And in any case would only effect the action of the B string, and not the overall action of the strings.

It did however get me thinking and wondering about how OP's B string witness point at the saddle looks?
Click to expand...

It will lower the string height as the taper / exposed core creates a "step down" but doesn't solve the core problem which has yet to be ID'd. As you suggested, I highly recommend setting the witness points...which is why I requested the side-shots! I would avoid taper-core strings as the over-compensated / staggered monorail array makes intonation a b**** even with conventionally wrapped string sets. Here's mine with Cobalt Flat B installed:

Monorail.jpeg


Riis
 
#8
Ritter667 said:
I don't see how that is supposed to lower the string action.

And if you mean taper after or beyond the saddle, then that is bound to create all kinds of intonation issues, and as such isn't really a viable solution either.
And in any case would only effect the action of the B string, and not the overall action of the strings.

It did however get me thinking and wondering about how OP's B string witness point at the saddle looks?
Click to expand...
On my 6 string, the set of strings I use have a tapered B string. The only thing sitting on the bridge saddle is the core. Which is how it is supposed to be. When I switched to these, I had to raise the saddle of the B string to accommodate for the taper. There are no intonation issues at all, just a more solid sounding B string. So, a tapered B string may help the OP.
 
#9
Taper wound strings have been around for many years, and there are tapered B, E, A, & D strings, although the taper becomes minimal on the smaller diameter strings. Intonation hasn’t been an issue on tapered strings that I know of, but I’m sure I didn’t buy the first ever set of taper wound strings. Taper wound strings don’t resolve high action problems, but do make a marginal improvement on the larger diameter strings.

In the pic posted by @Zooberwerx , it does appear there is enough material on the saddle part of the bridge rail to remove some. Seems the simplest solution is a thicker neck pocket shim.
 
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#10
Ritter667 said:
Neck relief should be way less than 1mm, also 2 mm is fairly low action, while 3mm is fairly high (though exactly where and how do you measure the action? This is measured from bottom of lowest/thicket string to top of 12th fret, without fretting anywhere), and yes, less than 1mm does make a huge difference in terms of playability.

Also I don't see what the issue is with the neck sitting higher than the body, it usually does on most basses, even without a shim.

Finally the shim is supposed to only cover the back of the neck pocket (towards the bridge), so that you lower the overall string angle, and thereby action towards the end of the neck.

And a cardboard business card is not the ideal shim as it'll compress over time.

How is the nut slots cut, are they by any chance cut too high?
Click to expand...
I was just eyeing string height above 24th fret. Just measured 12th fret and is 2.2mm-ish. Was 2.5-3mm I guess. Yes neck relief is about the thickness of a business card, much less than 1mm.

The shim is a stripe of business card placed at the back of the pocket

Nut slot a bit high, about 0.5mm above 1st fret when fretting 12th fret. But plays ok and I don't have tools to adjust it..
 
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#11
dabbler said:
File the bottom of the B string saddle or use strings that taper the B string before it gets to the saddle.
Click to expand...
Actually thought about filing the wood under the saddle, but E string bridge actually sits higher than B, so can only do it in B string slot with sandpaper and a finger, and I'm afraid I'll sand it unevenly. Tapered string is a good idea I prefer elixir strings though..
 
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#14
Cyril_YU said:
I was just eyeing string height above 24th fret. Just measured 12th fret and is 2.2mm-ish. Was 2.5-3mm I guess. Yes neck relief is about the thickness of a business card, much less than 1mm.

The shim is a stripe of business card placed at the back of the pocket

Nut slot a bit high, about 0.5mm above 1st fret when fretting 12th fret. But plays ok and I don't have tools to adjust it..
Click to expand...
And have you set the witness point at the bridge, that is ensured that the B string has a proper sharp break angle at the point where it is going over the saddle of the bridge piece?

You can use the photo in this post for reference to how it should look:
Zooberwerx said:
It will lower the string height as the taper / exposed core creates a "step down" but doesn't solve the core problem which has yet to be ID'd. As you suggested, I highly recommend setting the witness points...which is why I requested the side-shots! I would avoid taper-core strings as the over-compensated / staggered monorail array makes intonation a b**** even with conventionally wrapped string sets. Here's mine with Cobalt Flat B installed:

View attachment 7024948

Riis
Click to expand...
 
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#15
Ritter667 said:
I don't see how that is supposed to lower the string action.

And if you mean taper after or beyond the saddle, then that is bound to create all kinds of intonation issues, and as such isn't really a viable solution either.
And in any case would only effect the action of the B string, and not the overall action of the strings.

It did however get me thinking and wondering about how OP's B string witness point at the saddle looks?
Click to expand...
I guess I missed something. The only string action I saw him mention as a concern was the B string.

On mono bridges where the saddle can be completely pulled out of its slot, taking material off the bottom of the saddle will allow it to be lowered more.

Tapered strings intonate just fine. The mfrs have designed them to work just fine. I have a few myself.
 
#16
Zooberwerx said:
It will lower the string height as the taper / exposed core creates a "step down" but doesn't solve the core problem which has yet to be ID'd. As you suggested, I highly recommend setting the witness points...which is why I requested the side-shots! I would avoid taper-core strings as the over-compensated / staggered monorail array makes intonation a b**** even with conventionally wrapped string sets. Here's mine with Cobalt Flat B installed:

View attachment 7024948

Riis
Click to expand...
Whoa! I was not aware how Ibanez mono bridges are made! Yeah the saddles on my no-name mono bridges are not like that at all! Ignore what I said about filing the bottom of the saddle!
 
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#17
dabbler said:
Whoa! I was not aware how Ibanez mono bridges are made! Yeah the saddles on my no-name mono bridges are not like that at all!
Click to expand...

Yeah, they're strange agents in any number of ways:

*This particular revision has a fixed (~1") distance between the saddle and ball end anchor. The entire shmear shifts back 'n forth as a single unit when setting intonation.

*They're mounted in staggered array to simulate normal saddle positioning. Problem is they over-estimated / over-compensated so things end up flat even with a saddle in the full-forward posture. There are a couple of threads on this.

*Conventional wisdom holds that tapered / exposed core strings intonate well-ahead of their full-wrap counterparts. Bit of a dilemma when the saddle is at the end of its travel.

Riis
 
#18
You tampered with the neck and neck pocket by sanding on one side so it's no longer flat making uniform contact? Yikes. Contact Core Strings from GHS are tapered that would drop your B string significantly.
 
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