IEM comparison: cheap vs. custom

[Bullitt5135]

I am in the middle of setting up an 8-channel wireless IEM rig using the Phenyx PTM-21 units. Tonight, I compared 4 sets of IEMS by playing a multitrack recording back through my Soundcraft mixer in sound check mode.

Phexyx earbuds. Medium silicon tips. These came with the wireless units. They feel small and fragile. They fit OK and sounded thin. Suitable for emergency use, but I wouldn’t expect them to hold up to heavy use.

Shure 215. Medium Comply tips. Everybody in my old band used these. Tricky to insert because the cables swivel freely in the buds. I remember my bandmates struggling to insert these — now I see the problem. Didn’t feel like I got a good seal with these. I have large oval-shaped ear canals, and it’s very hard to find a good fit. Upper mid freqs are prominent. Bass is lacking. It could have been the fit, but i also recall that my old guitarist never had enough bass in his ears. Based on real world use, durability is good.

KZ ZS6. Medium silicon tips. I bought these years ago for a backup but have never taken them out of the box until now. Sound quality was noticeably better than the other earbuds. Better clarity and a lot more bass. With some EQ, I’d be ok with these for the price. Two complaints: the jack is tip-ring-ring-sleeve; I had to partially insert it in the mono receiver and jiggle it to get full sound. This is a non-starter for gigs...I’ll need to get another cable. Also, the silicon tips are friction fit and there is no lip on the shell to lock the tip in place. When I tried the large silicon tips, one of them pulled off and got stuck inside my ear canal.

InEarz P450. Custom molds. Expensive and worth it. Clear sound. More natural sound than the universal ones I tried. Flat response. Excellent bass response. Perfect fit.

Recommendation: on a budget, I’d use the latest version/cousin of the KZ ZS6... the Linsoul AS10 for $60. Comply foam tips seem to offer the best seal. Make sure the jack is TRS if you are running mono. In general, a backup cable should be in your kit, if not an entire backup set.

The KZ are a good place to start if contemplating IEMs. If you decide your are in it for the long haul, customs are expensive but worth it. In my experience, once you have them dialed in, it’s like playing along with a CD.

 

[musicman7722]

I agree with you all the way though I have never used InEarz P450.

I have used a number of different KZ's including the KZ10 as they were released, they are very good esp. at $60. I do recommend upgrading to the better cable, it does sound better.

I also tried the C3 brand which is similar to KZ. i sent them back as I could not get a larger tip onto the buds post.
My go to buds are Weston UM20 or whatever they are. I like rubber tips over comply but have used both types.
Yes rubber tips can come off and get stuck in your ear or pop and roll away, like a sock never to be seen again.

Thanks for your effort.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

I highly recommend switching to stereo iem feed I can't do mono feeds it's harsh and muddy.

 

[Bullitt5135]

I highly recommend switching to stereo iem feed I can't do mono feeds it's harsh and muddy.

I would if I could, but I have 8 AUX sends for 8 musicians. I have used a mono mix in the past for myself and didn't find it to be a deal-breaker.

 

[musicman7722]

Well yes stereo is preferred but i don't think that was in the OP post was it?

 

[SteveC]

I have been using various Westone IEM's for a number of years. Currently have the 3 way's as a backup and 5 driver as my main. They are not cheap, but not the most expensive either. I find they are a nice compromise between cheap ones and custom molds.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

Well yes stereo is preferred but i don't think that was in the OP post was it?

I should have clarified it will make a more substantial difference upgrading to stereo iem feeds then upgrading to expensive iem's that was my reason for posting that's wasn't trying to be rude to the op my bad. Its been my experience that many of the benefits of higher quality iem's are kind of lost on a mono feed system. I started out with a mono setup using Shure se215's and then upgraded to the kz zs6 iem's and it was clearer but when I switched to stereo feed and did a proper mix and panning it was a game changer.

 

[s0c9]

Another aspect often overlooked by IEM users - OTHER than stereo mixes - is ONLY put in the mix what you need to hear to do your job. It’s certainly nice to have a CD quality mix in one’s ears, but that’s not often realistic. Do you NEED very Tom and cymbal in the mix?
Panning two guitars makes a huge difference, but if you can’t they tend to blend in a mono mix.
The more you add into to your MONO mix, the sooner distortion takes over and ear fatigue sets in and the vol war cycle starts.
Keep it simple and basic and mono can work well for you!

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

Another aspect often overlooked by IEM users - OTHER than stereo mixes - is ONLY put in the mix what you need to hear to do your job. It’s certainly nice to have a CD quality mix in one’s ears, but that’s not often realistic. Do you NEED very Tom and cymbal in the mix?
Panning two guitars makes a huge difference, but if you can’t they tend to blend in a mono mix.
The more you add into to your MONO mix, the sooner distortion takes over and ear fatigue sets in and the vol war cycle starts.
Keep it simple and basic and mono can work well for you!

I get where you are coming and for guys who aren't well versed in mixing I would agree that limited mix is ideal to avoid clutter and mud. It all really depends on your ability to mix due to equipment limitations and each users experience at mixing. For my needs I do a full mix of our current setlist during our rehersals and have it all dialed in tight before we play out and save it in our x32. We also are each using a midas dp48 personal mixer on our boards that have each channel labeled in so if we end up needing to make any minor adjustments it's really easy. As long as we gain stage everything right The sound quality is perfect everytime.

 

[s0c9]

I get where you are coming and for guys who aren't well versed in mixing I would agree that limited mix is ideal to avoid clutter and mud. It all really depends on your ability to mix due to equipment limitations and each users experience at mixing. For my needs I do a full mix of our current setlist during our rehersals and have it all dialed in tight before we play out and save it in our x32. We also are each using a midas dp48 personal mixer on our boards that have each channel labeled in so if we end up needing to make any minor adjustments it's really easy. As long as we gain stage everything right The sound quality is perfect everytime.

I would say that [flame suit on] that most on the stage side are not "well versed in mixing".
My point was not so much that, but that one tends to get "mud" if one adds everything into a mono mix and is unable to pan/place things like one can in a stereo mix.
My advice was [generic] to keep things simple in both types (mono and stereo) and only put what you need into the IEM mix. Especially mono. KISS matters there!
Ask yourself, do I really need that in my mix? If you control your own IEM mix, great..try it. Remove or add channels later.
In a full mono mix, everything is "centered" and you WILL have trouble identifying things you need to hear over time - maybe not in a trio, but for sure when you include multiple instances of instruments like one often has in a church setting.
It's a good start and YMMV, but I have found that setting up mixes at practice is a baseline only, and I STILL have to tweak [some] at a gig. I now use gig settings for practice and have minimal changes to make for the next gig!

Throw all that out the window if mics/DI's are SR provided!

 

[nickpc]

So if I'm understanding the stereo/mono discussion here correctly, it would be recommended to pan Electric Guitar to one ear and Acoustic Guitar to the other? Vocals to one side and woodwinds (which play the melody a lot) to the other? My scenario is a church praise band using Aviom personal mixers and KZ10 IEMs.

 

[scuzzy]

I have the CCA C10, c12, and now the ca16 pro. Same company as KZ, but by most accounts they are flatter response.

I am very pleased with their comfort and the 16's sound very clean, tight, and everything is distinct. Great for iem's.

I use generic memory foam tips from Amazon. NewBee, etc

 

[s0c9]

So if I'm understanding the stereo/mono discussion here correctly, it would be recommended to pan Electric Guitar to one ear and Acoustic Guitar to the other? Vocals to one side and woodwinds (which play the melody a lot) to the other? My scenario is a church praise band using Aviom personal mixers and KZ10 IEMs.

Yes, but they don’t need to be panned hard left and right. They could be 10 or 11 and 1 or 2.. experiment.
I keep bass, kick and lead vox centered. My vox at 1 and lower in the mix, 2 guitars at 10 and 2 as both play leads.
It took me a while to figure out what I needed and where to place them in the stereo mix.

 

[drpepper]

So if I'm understanding the stereo/mono discussion here correctly, it would be recommended to pan Electric Guitar to one ear and Acoustic Guitar to the other? Vocals to one side and woodwinds (which play the melody a lot) to the other? My scenario is a church praise band using Aviom personal mixers and KZ10 IEMs.

It might be recommendable to move beyond the discussion here and do some YouTubing for something like "stereo in ear mixing." There's tons of videos (many are praise & worship sharing resources), and you'll find that one main approach is to use stereo panning to spatially arrange different channels. For example, you're at your center, so center yourself; if a guitar is to your right, pan that to the right by the amount necessary to move the apparent source in the stereo space, and so on.

I believe that our experiences, perception and preferences on some things are more individual and varied than we usually assume, and universality of benefits routinely get overstated. My personal experience is that a centered mix is completely satisfactory for me. That's been the case to the degree that I've had very little curiosity about how panning might affect my experience, until I was prompted comments here on TB to give it a shot. Not too long ago, hired sound used Allen & Heath and personal mixers with a physical knob for panning were clamped to each mic stand, so it seemed like a super convenient time to check it out rather than jacking around with our in ear rig. It turned out that it did absolutely nothing for me. Granted, it was a smallish and too loud stage, which might have lessened the effect. I think that in addition to simply being completely accustomed to and satisfied with a centered mix, my situation always being 4 or 5 piece with one main vocalist is probably a factor. Panning in more limited configurations logically would have less impact. Having 5 vocalists, 3 guitars, 2 keys, horns, a drum kit and separate percussion...that's a different situation. I saw the comment that "It totally helps your brain separate things", and I was thinking "Hmm, I didn't know my brain was having a problem, but okay." Again, different people have different personal preferences. For someone who is experiencing issues separating and locating sound sources, panning may be just the solution. For someone else, it may highlight and fix issues that they weren't really were there. For me, meh.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

I would say that [flame suit on] that most on the stage side are not "well versed in mixing".
My point was not so much that, but that one tends to get "mud" if one adds everything into a mono mix and is unable to pan/place things like one can in a stereo mix.
My advice was [generic] to keep things simple in both types (mono and stereo) and only put what you need into the IEM mix. Especially mono. KISS matters there!
Ask yourself, do I really need that in my mix? If you control your own IEM mix, great..try it. Remove or add channels later.
In a full mono mix, everything is "centered" and you WILL have trouble identifying things you need to hear over time - maybe not in a trio, but for sure when you include multiple instances of instruments like one often has in a church setting.
It's a good start and YMMV, but I have found that setting up mixes at practice is a baseline only, and I STILL have to tweak [some] at a gig. I now use gig settings for practice and have minimal changes to make for the next gig!

Throw all that out the window if mics/DI's are SR provided!

This is all spot on points man. I was not disagreeing with you I was just trying to point out previously that a full stereo mix when dialed in right can be amaizing too as a option for those with the right gear, time, and training to allow it atleast. This is why I love having a x32rack being able to save all of our mix presets while having everything labeled and using the same gear it is all pretty much fool proof as long as you gain stage everything properly and use your own mics and di's. About the most I have to adjust is to account for my input gain for guitar or basses with different pickups or preamps. I wish I had this setup when I was starting out it's been a game changer for me.

 

[musicman7722]

So if I'm understanding the stereo/mono discussion here correctly, it would be recommended to pan Electric Guitar to one ear and Acoustic Guitar to the other? Vocals to one side and woodwinds (which play the melody a lot) to the other? My scenario is a church praise band using Aviom personal mixers and KZ10 IEMs.

Yes but not that sever. In my case I had two guitars in the band so I panned one to 11 and one 1. I put my bass and vocal in the center and slightly panned the other vocals left and right. It also helps if you can pan the vocals and instruments in the direction they are onstage. PS a little reverb goes a long way.

 

[s0c9]

This is all spot on points man. I was not disagreeing with you I was just trying to point out previously that a full stereo mix when dialed in right can be amaizing too as a option for those with the right gear, time, and training to allow it atleast. This is why I love having a x32rack being able to save all of our mix presets while having everything labeled and using the same gear it is all pretty much fool proof as long as you gain stage everything properly and use your own mics and di's. About the most I have to adjust is to account for my input gain for guitar or basses with different pickups or preamps. I wish I had this setup when I was starting out it's been a game changer for me.

Neither was I disagreeing with you!
I have a tendency to respond to part of a post, then add stuff to share with others [who've not had the experience] in the off chance they might read it and gain something from it!

 

[nickpc]

It also helps if you can pan the vocals and instruments in the direction they are onstage.

Well, I'm wide stage right this week - everything is to my left. So that makes it simple!

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

Neither was I disagreeing with you!
I have a tendency to respond to part of a post, then add stuff to share with others [who've not had the experience] in the off chance they might read it and gain something from it!

I feel spoiled rotten by this setup I can only imagine how cool it will be later when they come out with a Wing version of the rack or maybe even something better.

 

[musicman7722]

Well, I'm wide stage right this week - everything is to my left. So that makes it simple!

Well there are 5 points to the left Question is who goes to 11?????